Then the world explodes.

I wouldn't stray out of my usual strat so I believe it'd come down to chance or skill level. If someone new didn't even know how to use abilities or even research them but went for the same strat... One would assume the worst for the noob.

Quote from Azxc

Hum... I guess he will kill me while I am camping, albowtross+ninjas is good for econ harasss
Ghost+albowtross for walls, ninjas with shinobi for miners

P.S. After reading all your comments, ninjas+albowtross is really unbeatable lol
So what will happen if both players have similar economy strength and they use the same tactic :o ?

Who have more micro wins.

Only solution that I can see is early pressure. Both of the units are costly as hell, and have a long queue time too.
Only problem is when he turtles.

Quote from Azxc

Hum... I guess he will kill me while I am camping, albowtross+ninjas is good for econ harasss
Ghost+albowtross for walls, ninjas with shinobi for miners

P.S. After reading all your comments, ninjas+albowtross is really unbeatable lol
So what will happen if both players have similar economy strength and they use the same tactic :o ?

Quote from _Ai_

Who have more micro wins.

Only solution that I can see is early pressure. Both of the units are costly as hell, and have a long queue time too.
Only problem is when he turtles.

I wouldn't say better micro...
The one with better tactics will win.

Quote from Tecness2

I wouldn't say better micro...
The one with better tactics will win.

So Tec, what order tactic beats albowtross+ninja combo?
Seems no tactics can beat this

Quote from Azxc

So Tec, what order tactic beats albowtross+ninja combo?
Seems no tactics can beat this

The way to beat it is to kill it before they can attack. Albow/Ninja is a very expensive build that takes a lonngggg time to be useful. Pressure like crazy and they wont stand a chance.

So, I'm a huge fan of shadowrath shinobi harass and also of albowtross in general. Usually I transition shadowrath into spearton and the like, but today I used the strat so...here's the replay, and yes, in chat we are both clambering over how powerful the build is. I screwed it up probably by not getting mages or anything, but it went fine anyhow (maybe not at higher elo.)

www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay1984045&version=1.68

So basically, rage start, he has an advantage over me as he takes centre and a bad encounter by me for rage...he should have pressured me right there. Anyhow, cause like I said, I love my shadowrath, I begin to transition into it. I see his lack of archers, and I go for albowtross. Now you'll see how I'm sniping off his archers and albowtross, keeping majority (In my 1500 crappy elo snipe). Then I hit 80/80 shadowrath albowtross...it was devestating for him. Yeah. He couldn't find a counter.

Quote from DragonArcherZ

So, I'm a huge fan of shadowrath shinobi harass and also of albowtross in general. Usually I transition shadowrath into spearton and the like, but today I used the strat so...here's the replay, and yes, in chat we are both clambering over how powerful the build is. I screwed it up probably by not getting mages or anything, but it went fine anyhow (maybe not at higher elo.)

www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay1984045&version=1.68

So basically, rage start, he has an advantage over me as he takes centre and a bad encounter by me for rage...he should have pressured me right there. Anyhow, cause like I said, I love my shadowrath, I begin to transition into it. I see his lack of archers, and I go for albowtross. Now you'll see how I'm sniping off his archers and albowtross, keeping majority (In my 1500 crappy elo snipe). Then I hit 80/80 shadowrath albowtross...it was devestating for him. Yeah. He couldn't find a counter.

That's cause he didn't pressure well. A few more archers to anti-air, some speartons, and better macro and he could've overrun you.

Like I said jili, "he should have pressured me right there". If he had, then it would have been an awry game for me and I wouldn't have managed to build up a crazy army.

EDIT: After playing it though, I have to admit, I can see how powerful the build can be.

What about giant spamming?

I know, enough ninjas can one-hit a giant without trouble, and allbows can do increased damage against giants, but giants are particularly suited for dealing damage to these two units as well.

The following are merely rough estimates that are tilted in the favour of ninja-allbow.

Let's say you have 8 ninjas and 8 allbows, having disposed of most your miners.

Then let's say 5 ninjas can one hit a fully grown giant.

Then let's say that you have a total of 6 giants, 6 merics, and one magikill.

Now, if the ninjas were to kill the giants first; the merics will heal the one giant that was poisoned but not dead, which shall retreat to the back of the rest of the giants.

The rest of the giants shall stun and kill a few ninjas, let's say 2.

This scenario leaves the ninja-allbow formation with 6 ninjas who will have to recharge shinobi before being useful and 8 allbows who will have to face the wrath of 4 giants and one mage. The only advantage ninja allbow now holds, is the speed advantage, which will still cost them one or two allbows too slow to escape the giant's rock followed by the magikill poison.

Now, next scene: Let's say they micro so well that they killed all your merics and your magikill.

You are left with 6 giants, while their shadows are out of shinobi and their allbows are unprotected.

Without shinobi, they can't really do anything against your giants, leaving them to kill the ninjas and allbows at their own pace. Personally, I would kill the ninjas first, as they can recharge shinobi and become a threat to the giants again.


Either way, a giant mass with a mage and merics should be able to take care of this.

Giant spamming takes time, but so does ninja allbow. So I guess that's how I would handle this situation; not sure how I could change to giant spam in the middle of a game though.

Quote from Wyrmspawn

Stuff

Against allbow/ninja I usually giant/meric spam with one mage as order. I can tell you from personal experience it works well. But what works even better is to kill it off before it can cause any damage

Fun fact: 10 SHINOBI! Still alive. Em lv2 E Giants...

Wyrm, I don't say I'm a pro and I haven't seen that in action so I can't say much, but instead of getting into an actual engagement, couldn't you play a running battle where you shinobi some merics and some giants, then get the hell out of there?

Like I said, that was tilted in the favour of the shadowrath-allbowtross formation to see if there was any way they could luck out or be skilled enough to defeat a giant mass.

Everything written there assumes that the ninjallbow users are at 10 times Wyzdom's level of micro, they have more troops compared to the giant masser, and that their troops are more powerful than they should be.

This was just my way of expressing how impossible it should be to kill a giant mass with ninja allbow.

It's sort of funny that the ninja-allbow can handle pretty much everything with ease except the noob's giant mass.

I think this is the strengths and weaknesses of albow+ninja
Strengths:
magikill can't kill albow because of ninja shinobi
ninja is better than spearton on 1v1 combat while albow has armour pericing bows.
albows fire arrows destroy giants
albows don't need a meat shield since they fly
ninja can kill other ranged units easily and finish spellcasters.

Weakness:
long build, money, and population
albow and ninja have extremely different speed and hard to keep at same place if not camping.

Sorry I can't find lots of counter for albow+ninja.

Quote from fhtrg

I think this is the strengths and weaknesses of albow+ninja
Strengths:
magikill can't kill albow because of ninja shinobi
ninja is better than spearton on 1v1 combat while albow has armour pericing bows.
albows fire arrows destroy giants
albows don't need a meat shield since they fly
ninja can kill other ranged units easily and finish spellcasters.

Weakness:
long build, money, and population
albow and ninja have extremely different speed and hard to keep at same place if not camping.

Sorry I can't find lots of counter for albow+ninja.

go for defence. Get 3 CA and walls. Behinde them also at least 1 magikill. And then giants and other stuffs...

Theire true weakness is their health.....