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How to counter swordwrath massing or archidon massing or spearton massing

Started by: XDHunterNest | Replies: 18 | Views: 2,674

XDHunterNest
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Aug 31, 2013 3:59 AM #1076677
It's easy! You just buy the blazing bolts upgrade and then you spam albowtrosses :P It would be total ownage.
ForgottenUser

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Aug 31, 2013 5:46 AM #1076755
Quote from ShadowGeneralChaos

EDIT: Hey ho, have the replay for 40 archers vs 20 albows now ^^: www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay2416139&version=1.70
if you dont want to watch the replay but want to see the result, click here:
you really want to spoile? (Click to Show)

Won't work. Please check the forums for these kinds of things before you post. Most things like this have already been covered.
ShadowGeneralChaos
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Aug 31, 2013 8:19 AM #1076809
Quote from ForgottenUser
Won't work. Please check the forums for these kinds of things before you post. Most things like this have already been covered.


the problem was: In my replay we didnt use any upgrades.... but, I think with the upgrades and micro archers would still win ^^ so, yes, your right :)

@XDHunterNest: Nah....I think only effective against spearton mass.... agaist archidon mass, look above, against swordwrath mass, they would be too less albowtrosses and also little Fire rate.....
FailingAtFailing
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Aug 31, 2013 1:55 PM #1076928
hahahahahaha no

Magikill are the key to those 3 masses. Poison all the units then cast an electric wall on yourself to protect from swords and speartons. You'll need a guarding giant to protect against archers. Albowtrosses are junk without a giant to protect from archers. Archers have more range and speed than albowtrosses, so they could stay just out of albowtross range and keep moving back and firing, killing them all with few casualties. Although, I'm sure alot of lower ranks still just use the attack button on the bottom.
DiamondFreak
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Aug 31, 2013 2:46 PM #1076959
XD Nooooooooooooo.
On a one-on-one archidon vs albow (with fire arrows), the albow will undoubtedly win. One a one-on-two, the chances are slim even if albow has fire arrows. Let's say that the archers are surrounded by speartons, then it will be harder to micro on the archer. I'd say use magikill for the archidon massing; a well placed magikill wall can end the battle in a few seconds.
Spearton rushing has many weaknesses, including Magikill, Albows, and miner walls. Two magikill walls will destroy a spearton rush, even if the opponent can micro in on the magikill. Poison spray works wonders, too. Albows with fire arrows, well, speartons won't even be able to attack them in the first place, and the fire arrows do a lot of damage. I think, uh, 12 arrows bring down a spearton? Or is it 9 or 6? Moving on: I've faced a spearton rusher before; and they tried to run right past me to attack the statue. Apparently it was really hard to micro in on the miner wall, because they kept attacking my army instead and they were completely overpowered. Plus, I got resilience, which I think doubles the statue health. Either way, massing sucks. I'd say diversity is the key, but have it your way.
DiamondFreak
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Aug 31, 2013 2:54 PM #1076963
Quote from FailingAtFailing
hahahahahaha no

Magikill are the key to those 3 masses. Poison all the units then cast an electric wall on yourself to protect from swords and speartons. You'll need a guarding giant to protect against archers. Albowtrosses are junk without a giant to protect from archers. Archers have more range and speed than albowtrosses, so they could stay just out of albowtross range and keep moving back and firing, killing them all with few casualties. Although, I'm sure alot of lower ranks still just use the attack button on the bottom.


I'd say that you'll need more than one magikill to pull off the wall and the poison spray. Mid 1500s players are smart enough to disable the magikill first, but if you have two or three you can cast those one or two spells that will let you gain the upper hand. I do prefer Albowtross more than archidons, because they have more health and are a bit more resistant against Magikill Wall. And yes, I love trolling people with archidons; but I'm not really good at kiting, but I can still pull off a few tricks.
FailingAtFailing
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Aug 31, 2013 6:12 PM #1077039
Quote from DiamondFreak
XD Nooooooooooooo.
On a one-on-one archidon vs albow (with fire arrows), the albow will undoubtedly win. One a one-on-two, the chances are slim even if albow has fire arrows. Let's say that the archers are surrounded by speartons, then it will be harder to micro on the archer. I'd say use magikill for the archidon massing; a well placed magikill wall can end the battle in a few seconds.
Spearton rushing has many weaknesses, including Magikill, Albows, and miner walls. Two magikill walls will destroy a spearton rush, even if the opponent can micro in on the magikill. Poison spray works wonders, too. Albows with fire arrows, well, speartons won't even be able to attack them in the first place, and the fire arrows do a lot of damage. I think, uh, 12 arrows bring down a spearton? Or is it 9 or 6? Moving on: I've faced a spearton rusher before; and they tried to run right past me to attack the statue. Apparently it was really hard to micro in on the miner wall, because they kept attacking my army instead and they were completely overpowered. Plus, I got resilience, which I think doubles the statue health. Either way, massing sucks. I'd say diversity is the key, but have it your way.


Just to clear some basic terms here, fire arrows are an archidon ability. The albowtrosses get blazing bolts, which although they give a slight damage boost against unarmoured enemies, they're mainly meant to multiple the damage to armoured enemies by like 5. Which is pretty boss. The archidon fire arrows have a five second recharge time, and are not passive. They also do not increase damage (bugged) but still do increase range.

Already, an archidon out-ranges an albowtross and out-speeds it. As I said, it is theoretically possible for archidons to take down albowtrosses with no losses, even easier with the extra range boost every 5 seconds thanks to fire arrows. And surrounding an archidon with speartons does not make the archidonis harder to select. I assume you aren't aware of the hotkey command Control + 2. That selects every archidonis you have on the field, unless they're in the castle field (or courtyard?)

Also, a magikill will never be able to get an electric wall on some archers. Electric wall is the spell with the shortest range. The only time you're going to get an electric wall on archers is a full scale battle where the opponent is focused on other units, such as ninjas or their own magikill. It is better to have a giant tank for your magikill while their hyper range poison spray poisons all the archers. On a long map, if you're at the center, the archidonis will die without merics. I think poison spray needs a slight range boost in my opinion though, kinda easy to dodge since the magikill kinda screams the spell.

Also, albowtrosses will be easily run past, you might get a volley or two but the Speartons are much faster than albowtrosses and the albowtrosses will not be able to keep up. If your opponent was spearton rushing and couldn't decide whether to attack walls or army, well they either don't understand the Spearton rush, or are bad at spearton rushing. If I suspect a spear rush is coming, all my albowtrosses will go back to the statue, so that they don't have to chase the speartons. Swordwrath with rage also work wonders. Castle Archer also helps.

I have a feeling you have an idea what you're doing, but not a full grasp on counter counters (ummmm, don't know what else to call them) and some of the factors in the game, such as unit speed which can be a big thing (again, albowtrosses will only be able to keep up with the mage units and giants, and probably miners, and for Chaos, their mages, deads, and their giants) and range which is a big factor in ranged combat.

For future reference on range, I have an idea on unit ranges from my experience.

Deads and fire arrows from Archidonis have the highest range
Normal Archidonis arrows and Wingidon/Eclipsor arrows are right behind that, lagging behind by maybe the equivalent of one unit row
Albowtrosses are right behind them by another unit row.
Enslaved Giant probably has the shortest range. I think it is about half a unit row behind the albowtross.

One unit row is refering to the rows units arrange themselves in when you command them all to stand somewhere.

Quote from DiamondFreak
I'd say that you'll need more than one magikill to pull off the wall and the poison spray. Mid 1500s players are smart enough to disable the magikill first, but if you have two or three you can cast those one or two spells that will let you gain the upper hand. I do prefer Albowtross more than archidons, because they have more health and are a bit more resistant against Magikill Wall. And yes, I love trolling people with archidons; but I'm not really good at kiting, but I can still pull off a few tricks.


Hotkeys for spells, electric wall will probably be first, if you're devious, hide the magikill behind the giant, so they will barely see it and it will be hard to target. Poison also still tears through many units below 2 health bars. And a single explosion will take out most of an albowtross' health and instant kill archers. Since Giants and Magikill have highly similar speeds, they can stick together as a unit easily. Giants, albowtrosses and magikill together are an amazing combo IMHO.
XDHunterNest
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Sep 1, 2013 9:36 AM #1077504
Well, I owned lol.
Wyrmspawn
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Sep 1, 2013 9:47 AM #1077507
Of course you'd own; nobody below 1500s really knows how to counter allbows. Good on you for finding that one; I guess I'd be seeing you around the 1600s soon...
XDHunterNest
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Sep 1, 2013 10:04 AM #1077516
Quote from Wyrmspawn
Of course you'd own; nobody below 1500s really knows how to counter allbows. Good on you for finding that one; I guess I'd be seeing you around the 1600s soon...

Nah, man. I just went back to 1300s from 1500s. Me and my brother had a series of battles and I lost most of them. I didn't spam him with albows though. Stupid Medusa >.<
ShadowGeneralChaos
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Sep 1, 2013 11:48 AM #1077562
Quote from XDHunterNest
Nah, man. I just went back to 1300s from 1500s. Me and my brother had a series of battles and I lost most of them. I didn't spam him with albows though. Stupid Medusa >.<


lol...you playing against your brother...lol older or younger? And lol, he use Chaos and you wanted to spam albows? kk v_v
XDHunterNest
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Sep 2, 2013 10:48 AM #1078131
Nah I didn't spam albows lol. He's an older brother. I actually was winning....... CURSE YOU MEDUSA!
fhtrg

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Sep 2, 2013 1:04 PM #1078166
He spam medusa? USE ARCHERS AND SWORDWRATH!!!!!

And also if they spearton mass, I just get about 10-15 albows at my base and 1 magikill, 1 spearton, miners, miner wall, and the rest are shadowrath. They will probably make there spearton stay at there base garrisoned. I make the spearton in wall mode, and the shadowrath attack the statue, and when the speartons defend, I make My shadowrath run away, and I repeat until there statue is destroyed. If they attack me, my miner wall, magikill (through will be dead but still poison the speartons) and my albows will pwn the speartons.
ShadowGeneralChaos
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Sep 2, 2013 3:44 PM #1078228
Quote from XDHunterNest
Nah I didn't spam albows lol. He's an older brother. I actually was winning....... CURSE YOU MEDUSA!


if he medusa massed you,then...LOL, why did you let him do it? (ok, I also let some others do that...but I ould counter them...) Best way to avoid medusa mass is eco harrasement...
XDHunterNest
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Sep 3, 2013 10:51 AM #1078686
He used Medusa on me and I realized he had a huge army behind him. Juggerknights, marrowkai and the Chaos counterpart of the albowtross (I forgot what it's called)
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