Quote from gyohdon

FrozenPhoenix,
Then, I'm going to oblibirate free will from God again (not free will in general, so ash don't whine). Assuming he made everything and that God was here all time, can only be logically explained if he doesn't have time. Which would mean he would know everything from all times. Knowing what would happen when he put us on Earth. Thus, free will giving by God would not be possible.
quite true, never thought of that

Now, for the statements: 'God doesn't make religions/war, people do'.
I seriously doubt that humans would've come up with that. And God made humans by his own image. Which would mean that War and Religion were already in God when he made them, right?
i disagree with that statement. he gave us free will. total free will would mean we COULD do that, and the way we are brought up could influence us to be mean and spiteful, whilst others are kind and caring

What you say about Hell, is something I have to agree you with (Grammar?), that was actually the point I was trying to make.
again, a lot of christians dont believe in an actual hell

And yes, you're right, I should've done more research, but my actual goal wasn't for people on this forum to debate this intensely, I wanted to know how religious people thought about my questions. Thus, this being my research.
ok i see


@ sacred: I have a question: Who else was there when she said it to her mom? And is her mom religious?

@jrockpunk: Idiot. Don't you know what a debate is? It's not something about a question being answered. A debate is a 'conversation' between two sides about a certain subject, giving the other side arguments why they are on that side. There is no answer, I know that. I was interested in your arguments. And now don't a little selfish attention whore, posting worthless crap, about letting this die, just because you can't answer those question.
i wrote that because there are no facts on either side of the debate. there is no solid proof in any direction, and that means that this debate would purely just be expressing beliefs which in fact, might not hold any truth whatsoever. so the point is, youre not going to get an answer, or anywhere near an answer. there are just 2 beliefs - there is a god, and there isnt a god. it is the same with all other religious debates debating the reality of religion. but if you just want to hear peoples beliefs that in fact could be total BS then fine.

Quote from alive

I think the focus on religion is wrong. Is it really the point whether there's an almighty being in the sky, or should we try to focus more on what the bible, or any other religious book or teaching for that matter, actually is trying to tell us?

I've read the bible, and some of the Koran, and in the end, what I got out of it was the general message: "Be nice to people!" Be nice to people and achieve transcendence. Whether the stories told are true or not doesn't really matter. Whether you will really achieve transcendence if being nice to people doesn't matter either. What matters is what you get out of the stories, what the stories are trying to tell you.

Most, if not all, of the fairy tales we were told as kids had morals. No one believes these tales are true, but does that make the morals less valid? No, of course not. A book can change your thoughts of life. So can a movie.

So when thinking about religion, stop investing all your time in debating the credibility of the stories. No one knows if they're true or not, in my opinion, no one should care. Instead, try to understand the lesson they are teaching you. If you don't like it, then ignore it, but if you do like, then live by it.

:)

Quote from Ash

Sure the bible teaches you to be nice, live in happiness, etc. but the problem is that it also teaches racial discrimination, bigotry, and many other negavite things. The Koran is even worse: it teaches that you should be violent to all members of other religions, even as far as to give particular forms of execution for certain religions.

Where the bible and Koran have some positive messages, it's all to easy for an impressionable young person to run witht he negative messages as well.

Your post also brings up another point: people do NOT need a religious text to learn what is right and wrong. In fact, many of the bible's morals are very convoluted and outdated. In many sunday school classes, much "editing" takes place about what to do according to the bible. You should do good things because you feel they are the right things to do, not because a book says "Do this; don't do this"




To end this, I will say this: Telling us not to focus time and energy on debating about the truthfullness of the Bible is just stupid. Why? Because we don't do it because we think it will do any good, we do it for entertainment: debate is fun. So shut up and let us debate.

Quote from alive

People doesn't need religious texts to learn right from wrong. People doesn't need a teacher to teach them how to play the guitar, but it can sure help a lot.

I can agree debating is fun, but debating religion really died as entertainment years ago on my part. I honestly don't understand that you still think it's entertaining to post the same garden quote by Douglas Adams in every debate about religion you encounter.

That religious books have negative messages doesn't mean we should ignore their good ones. When reading a book, every person should be able to decide for himself what he wants to believe in and what he chooses to ignore. If the person is incapable of doing that, the fault is not in the book, but in the person.
Being an atheist doesn't mean you can't understand an live by some of the principles of religion. You can read the bible, take a lesson from it and live by some of it words, but still not be a Christian, or anything close. You can read Mein Kampf, agree with parts of what is said there, but still not be a nazist, or anything close.

Quote from gyohdon

@ sacred: I have a question: Who else was there when she said it to her mom? And is her mom religious?

Quote from gyohdon;

[B

3. (My favorite, but I'll save the best for last) All religions.[/B]

So if there would be a loving god and he wanted to be praised, why would he make so many religions anyway? Wich mostly have the same basic thoughts, but still are soooo different from eachother? These differences (Did I spell it right, or should it be differenses?) make war and stuff like that, a good god wouldn't do something like that, would he?
But, of course this doesn't disprove that there is no god, but like the other ones, it proves that if there is a god, he isn't quite the god most people on earth thought he would be.

Quote from Ash

This thread is complete shit.

I'm staying out.

Quote from catfan

I believe that God is real, but I don't see the point of worship. What good does it do for you? I believe that all good people go to heaven. If people never sinned, they'd be pretty boring. I mean, really. God has to be a little lenient... And I do see Atheists' point of view, but I still believe that God is real. Although I don't see the point in worshipping him.

Quote from MiniMan

Anyone else see him repeat himself for effect? For some kind of effect?