Quote from Jutsu

Because she's stupid annoying and needs changes.

But she's so squishy. She's not Zed who can just w away from harm. She lacks escapes most of the time.

Lacks escapes except for her eternally long stun ultimate and her spell which transforms her and her friends into Kenyans.
Which isn't even accounting for a talisman of ascension.

And all she needs to do is get inside of her totally annoying range and mash her hurty spell to poke. In combination with a lich's bane and her auto attack/passive and she straight up chunks health, if not flat out melts it.

Very very annoying champ and as a support player I feel like she insults my intelligence. As her most complicated spell is her ultimate which is a fast skill shot that does CC.


I don't mean any offense if you really like this champion. But she really deserves any punishment she gets.
that is to say, not a lot of people will be upset by it.

I can see where you're coming from. I think I'm just upset at how my favourite champion got nerfed, is all. I'll get used to her nerf in a few games I think so no worries.

Well, yeah. Her poke is the easiest poke ever you don't even need to point, you just press. And for such a long range easy poke, she does a lot of damage. I can see where the nerf is needed but her early game is already pretty weak. She's also mana hungry, if you keep spamming her skills you'll quickly run out of mana. Oh and yes the damage can be pretty ridiculous lmao.

While she may probably be the easiest support to use, there's a lot more to her than just her abilities. Her passive plays a big role in pulling off stunts. q gives bonus damage, w reduces damage, e slows them down. Utilizing her passive is provides so much more to her than healing poking and stunning. For example playing under the tower. If the opponent has full health and you're like 50%, using her w to cut down the damage output of your enemy and dancing around the tower should be enough for the tower to get him to low enough health, in which he start fleeing. When he does, using the passive slow or her stun it's a kill for you. If a sona player doesn't take advantage of her passive, she's a dead sona. Her ult has a long cd compared to most other champs and the fact that you can miss with it makes you save it, hesitate to use it in most occasion which sometimes cost you the game.

She's underrated, pretty much.

Not to mention she has the health of a minion at level 1 lol. She's very popular with the girls....

Quote from DiPi

If you switch the name "Sona" with "Zed", the comment doesn't change

Are you implying zed is op? Because he's not in anyway. He's a very strong laner with good poke, and a strong ultimate when placed correctly. But he's not op. Any champion with hard cc can take him down, or would at least force him to counterplay and miss an oppturnity to get the kill. Also zhonya's bby. You've basically cancelled his biggest damage source for another 50 seconds.

Though I have to say it's pretty ridiculous how he can get away safely with his shadow and become untargetable/invincible during his ult. Most other champs doesn't do that.

Quote from Salt

Are you implying zed is op? Because he's not in anyway. He's a very strong laner with good poke, and a strong ultimate when placed correctly. But he's not op. Any champion with hard cc can take him down, or would at least force him to counterplay and miss an oppturnity to get the kill. Also zhonya's bby. You've basically cancelled his biggest damage source for another 50 seconds.

it's not that zed is op, but he can pratically take on everyone. If he starts split-pushing, it's impossible to stop him, since he has both extreme pushing capabilities, both extreme single target damage (he can 100-0 tanks, which is something other assassins can't do)
He's not an assassin anymore, more like a manaless fighter with extreme amounts of mobility and damage who can't be beaten in 1 vs 1 fights (and assassins USUALLY shouldn't be able to 1 vs 1 others (except squishy champions, but that is their job))

Quote from _Ai_

I can see where you're coming from. I think I'm just upset at how my favourite champion got nerfed, is all. I'll get used to her nerf in a few games I think so no worries.

Well, yeah. Her poke is the easiest poke ever you don't even need to point, you just press. And for such a long range easy poke, she does a lot of damage. I can see where the nerf is needed but her early game is already pretty weak. She's also mana hungry, if you keep spamming her skills you'll quickly run out of mana. Oh and yes the damage can be pretty ridiculous lmao.

While she may probably be the easiest support to use, there's a lot more to her than just her abilities. Her passive plays a big role in pulling off stunts. q gives bonus damage, w reduces damage, e slows them down. Utilizing her passive is provides so much more to her than healing poking and stunning. For example playing under the tower. If the opponent has full health and you're like 50%, using her w to cut down the damage output of your enemy and dancing around the tower should be enough for the tower to get him to low enough health, in which he start fleeing. When he does, using the passive slow or her stun it's a kill for you. If a sona player doesn't take advantage of her passive, she's a dead sona. Her ult has a long cd compared to most other champs and the fact that you can miss with it makes you save it, hesitate to use it in most occasion which sometimes cost you the game.

She's underrated, pretty much.

I can understand that. My kha'zix is still thoroughly nerfed into the ground and doesn't even come close to reliving his former glory until you've got like 4 items.

Quote from Salt

Are you implying zed is op? Because he's not in anyway. He's a very strong laner with good poke, and a strong ultimate when placed correctly. But he's not op. Any champion with hard cc can take him down, or would at least force him to counterplay and miss an oppturnity to get the kill. Also zhonya's bby. You've basically cancelled his biggest damage source for another 50 seconds.

The biggest problem is laning against him as he often gets fed, because it's incredibly easy for him to secure ganks and while you can keep up with him in poke his energy source is limitless. I've been watching a lot of the newest pro games and he's banned/played almost every game, because when it comes to laning there isn't any true counter play against him and he's good all game long. When I face him I just pick lulu and try not to feed him any kills, taking teleport to try and protect my tower. Only killing him MAYBE when ganks come around or team fighting starts.

And a good Zed wont target a player who has Zhonya's, or at least when it's up.

Quote from _Ai_

Though I have to say it's pretty ridiculous how he can get away safely with his shadow and become untargetable/invincible during his ult. Most other champs doesn't do that.

Yeah I would love to see his shadow clone get nerfed, it's a little bit toxic in my opinion. It makes it so he can make HUGE mistakes at no penalty.

But you're wrong about his ultimate. As I mentioned previously Lulu's ultimate can actually cancel zeds, if you activate it the moment he's about to strike. Janna's ultimate knocks him clean out of it too.


In short, just because riot thinks he's the "Perfect example of a none toxic assassin" doesn't mean they aren't feeding us bullshit.

But it's just the case for a few champs, right? And it'd need an almost perfect timing on it, while he just needs to point and press R, do his thing, shadow away, spam /laugh while you wail in despair for your impending doom. He can even 1v5 if the team doesn't have any hard cc and get away safely. I really don't like that.

Quote from _Ai_

But it's just the case for a few champs, right? And it'd need an almost perfect timing on it, while he just needs to point and press R, do his thing, shadow away, spam /laugh while you wail in despair for your impending doom. He can even 1v5 if the team doesn't have any hard cc and get away safely. I really don't like that.

Right, that's why I don't consider it counter play. It's more like, not getting slaughtered by Zed play, which a lot of champions don't have access too frankly. That technique, like Lulu in general, is very skill intensive. Which has to be done in anticipation and perfectly executed in response to him clicking a single button.
If it's a one on one situation, it depends what the life bars are at. If you've been doing Lulu's laning well and been winning poke, you can cast whimsy on him immediately, tag him with a couple auto attacks and use help pix on him. Then when he uses his shadow clone shoot him in the back with Q (With pix attached to him) to maybe get the kill.
If your life is low, you're better off just saving those spells to ensure your escape.

That's also not factoring in whether or not you have turret nearby that you can run under.

If you have teammates with cc nearby, using this technique can really poop on him. I still don't count that as counter play, as you should have the advantage 2v1 vs any champ.

Otherwise zed just gets away from everything with his literally free escape/poke/chase.

Quote from Salt

Are you implying zed is op? Because he's not in anyway. He's a very strong laner with good poke, and a strong ultimate when placed correctly. But he's not op. Any champion with hard cc can take him down, or would at least force him to counterplay and miss an oppturnity to get the kill. Also zhonya's bby. You've basically cancelled his biggest damage source for another 50 seconds.

I never knew adc could buy zhonyas

If they nerf Zed i'm going to uninstall.

Quote from DiPi

it's not that zed is op, but he can pratically take on everyone. If he starts split-pushing, it's impossible to stop him, since he has both extreme pushing capabilities, both extreme single target damage (he can 100-0 tanks, which is something other assassins can't do)
He's not an assassin anymore, more like a manaless fighter with extreme amounts of mobility and damage who can't be beaten in 1 vs 1 fights (and assassins USUALLY shouldn't be able to 1 vs 1 others (except squishy champions, but that is their job))

A well built talon demolishes tanks dude....but the only reason zed became a better pick than talon is because they removed talons silence, which fuckin pissed me off. Now its a shitty half second slow that just lets champs like syndra and malzahar or anyone with any cc at all to stun/burst you instantly unless you immediately ult, and even then theres a good chance you cant get your full burst off to assasinate.

Quote from Cruel

If they nerf Zed i'm going to uninstall.

That's not much of a bargaining chip to a company with millions and millions of players. Zed seriously needs to be able to be punished for making mistakes instead of having a free button-press escape out of any dumb engagement possible. That mofo could try and assassinate someone in the fountain laser and get out before it killed him. He needs changes.

Quote from Devour

That's not much of a bargaining chip to a company with millions and millions of players. Zed seriously needs to be able to be punished for making mistakes instead of having a free button-press escape out of any dumb engagement possible. That mofo could try and assassinate someone in the fountain laser and get out before it killed him. He needs changes.

Yeah but he is also among the most mechanically difficult champions to play. A bad zed is just 100 percent useless. If he falls behind at all he becomes a walking kill for the other team because outside of damage he has no utility at all other than one slow. Also, he's not a good team fighter and is EXTREMELY ult reliant. Without his ult he is very easy to kill. They will probably end up just making the cd on his ult higher.

Quote from Cruel

Yeah but he is also among the most mechanically difficult champions to play.

Not...really.
But you're entitled to your own opinion.

Quote from Cruel

A bad zed is just 100 percent useless. If he falls behind at all he becomes a walking kill for the other team because outside of damage he has no utility at all other than one slow. Also, he's not a good team fighter and is EXTREMELY ult reliant. Without his ult he is very easy to kill. They will probably end up just making the cd on his ult higher.

A bad player should fall behind. Regardless of what champion they're playing.
Even if he's behind, which he almost never is. I don't see how he could ever be a "walking kill" unless he's caught way out of position, not paying attention to the map. Because even without items his free escape is still completely and totally free.
And even when I use the techniques I was talking about earlier, which cancel his ultimate. He's still far from "very easy to kill", because as I said. His escape is completely free.