Wyrm, scouting isn't just about collecting the information you just got, it's also about joining the dots. Put it this way.

- Wtf...this guy hasn't made a new giant, meric or mage in the last 2 minutes?!?!?!
- (if you're putting it close enough to CA they can scout this) Wait there's like nothing on mana, but you need merics...and mages...and ninjas...wtf...

And of course, if you attack deep enough, you can always scout garrison. But yeah, if you get signs like this you will start wondering what he's doing.

Also, mages can cast 2 spells by the time your swords make it to me, if you cast it right after each other. A poison before you come into range so swords move into it, then blast myself to deal a ton of damage. Assuming they only have one mage, one to two mages is fairly common in a composition.

Here's the thing; what do you scout with? Would you scout with a sword, or a ninja? If you're scouting with a sword, good luck getting past the giants. And if you're using a ninja, good luck getting AWAY from the giants.

If you scout with an entire army, then it's no longer scouting. It's an attack, and it's probably a signal that I should launch the swords.

Besides, what will you assume that the enemy will do if you see the enemy isn't actually giant massing? Probably an allbow mass, a ninja mass, or maybe if it's a particularly noobish enemy, a spearton rush. Would you expect something as idiotic and unpractical as the rage rush? If you actually expect that in a match, you are probably so careful that you deserve to beat this strategy.

About the mages... actually, to completely kill raging swords with mages can be difficult; swords are like swarms of piranhas when they rage. So far, I've never seen anyone get over their surprise fast enough to cast two spells at my swords; sometimes, they don't even get the poison spray out in time.

Yes, it's true that it's probably possible to cast two spells before the swords get to the mage; but if you were the one controlling the mage (or magii) and you see 3 rows of raging swords rushing you, would you be able to shake off your surprised laughter fast enough to get the two spells in?

One thing this strategy has going for it is the sheer craziness involved. Who would expect it?

Quote from Wyrmspawn

Here's the thing; what do you scout with? Would you scout with a sword, or a ninja? If you're scouting with a sword, good luck getting past the giants. And if you're using a ninja, good luck getting AWAY from the giants.

If you scout with an entire army, then it's no longer scouting. It's an attack, and it's probably a signal that I should launch the swords.

Besides, what will you assume that the enemy will do if you see the enemy isn't actually giant massing? Probably an allbow mass, a ninja mass, or maybe if it's a particularly noobish enemy, a spearton rush. Would you expect something as idiotic and unpractical as the rage rush? If you actually expect that in a match, you are probably so careful that you deserve to beat this strategy.

About the mages... actually, to completely kill raging swords with mages can be difficult; swords are like swarms of piranhas when they rage. So far, I've never seen anyone get over their surprise fast enough to cast two spells at my swords; sometimes, they don't even get the poison spray out in time.

Yes, it's true that it's probably possible to cast two spells before the swords get to the mage; but if you were the one controlling the mage (or magii) and you see 3 rows of raging swords rushing you, would you be able to shake off your surprised laughter fast enough to get the two spells in?

One thing this strategy has going for it is the sheer craziness involved. Who would expect it?

So what if he loses a ninja, when he sees all the swords, he wouldn't need it anymore.

Wyrm, firstly, if I scouted the swords, counter is all I need. Secondly, if a player sees a lack of army aka hidden garrison or just fail macro they will attack to pressure. And if launching say, 10 swords, which is btw, 120 seconds queue time, will stop the attack...yeah.

And yes, no one expects that because queue times are long, it gets pwned by kiting archers, albows, mages, etc.

Okay, feasibly you'll get one spell off, if you can't even get a poison spray off idk what the heck they were trying to do. The thing is, surprised laughter? You learn from experience never to underestimate anything when ranking or you'll find yourself losing to some 1700 who decided sword/archer on a medium map was smart.

Put it this way. The strategy isn't used because typical endgame units such as say, two mages will rip swords, albows and archers can do some decent damage, esp. with kiting, and the fact that he can get a spear, a mage, and a meric faster than you can get 3 swords out makes it unfeasible.

Quote from FailingAtFailing

So what if he loses a ninja, when he sees all the swords, he wouldn't need it anymore.

The ninja won't get past the giants. First of all, there are two walls blocking him, and behind those walls, there are the giants.

Quote from Wyrmspawn

The ninja won't get past the giants. First of all, there are two walls blocking him, and behind those walls, there are the giants.

As I stated, scouting isn't always about seeing, and you might as well attack if they have a smaller visible army anyway.

Forget it.

Quote from Wyrmspawn

The ninja won't get past the giants. First of all, there are two walls blocking him, and behind those walls, there are the giants.

Archers have a longer range than any unit (barring Deads) so some archers can easily destroy the walls, and the giants will have to come out into their range to combat the archers. Alot of people use archers too so..... And hell, if the person controlling the archers wants to, they can just cycle the archers to continue hammering away at the giants since they only hit 2 at a time.

If you decide to keep rebuilding the walls, you're wasting gold each time, I could be using equivalent gold to get more units for myself to reach max population sooner than you and launch a full out attack.

www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay4164335&version=1.84

Yes, it was against a noob, but if it works, I'll use it. Besides, it's fun as hell to watch.

Failing, I really don't see how that is a problem. If they send in too many archers, I'll just attack with all units in a blitzkrieg immediately. Since my swords are garrisoned, my giants will reach the archers first, and the other player will probably try to get off a final volley before leaving; at that point, my swords will be right behind the giant, and it will be far too late to change tactics, owing to the lag. That volley will dent the swords a little, maybe kill off three, or even four of my swords and severely denting my front row, but I'll kill all their archers. Won't take too long to heal up after that; I'll just send the giants forward while my swords heal to full health, and then send the swords out to catch up.

If it's just a few archers, a giant shall be more than enough to discourage it. By placing a giant in front of the wall, I'd have to be up against someone with very good micro who knows exactly where to position an archer (too many archers will get some into line of fire from the giant). One wrong move, and his archer is dead. That time spent on microing the archer would be better spent on considering his own army.

And gold isn't exactly an issue in DM.

Quote from Wyrmspawn

www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay4164335&version=1.84

Yes, it was against a noob, but if it works, I'll use it. Besides, it's fun as hell to watch.

Failing, I really don't see how that is a problem. If they send in too many archers, I'll just attack with all units in a blitzkrieg immediately. Since my swords are garrisoned, my giants will reach the archers first, and the other player will probably try to get off a final volley before leaving; at that point, my swords will be right behind the giant, and it will be far too late to change tactics, owing to the lag. That volley will dent the swords a little, maybe kill off three, or even four of my swords and severely denting my front row, but I'll kill all their archers. Won't take too long to heal up after that; I'll just send the giants forward while my swords heal to full health, and then send the swords out to catch up.

If it's just a few archers, a giant shall be more than enough to discourage it. By placing a giant in front of the wall, I'd have to be up against someone with very good micro who knows exactly where to position an archer (too many archers will get some into line of fire from the giant). One wrong move, and his archer is dead. That time spent on microing the archer would be better spent on considering his own army.

And gold isn't exactly an issue in DM.

1) Gold is an issue in DM...macro...

2) Archers can get in maybe 2 volleys for equivalent swords. I would personally expect albows more than archers cause DM meta, but assuming he had archers, he would be about to kite the rage, then continue kiting. Archers > Swords, there's a reason rage meta dropped when archer meta came in.

3) This is hopeless trying to argue against someone who can't even G-kite properly and won't attack 2 speartons vs 1 castle dead. I'm sorry, but if you're going to argue, please use some logic.