So, recently I've noticed that all starts require you to use up pretty much all of your starting 500 gold so that you can't buy any other units.

Are there good starts that don't require you to? For instance, if I were to start off with one sword and one miner, then buy an archer soon after

Using such a start would then lead to a balance of army and economy, so either way if your opponent trys to pressure you or if they plan to turtle from the start (I know its stupid) you get a slight advantage in the beginning.

Some of these other (theoretical) starts include:
Archer+miner, then a sword (I think this is actually pretty common, especially on castle)
Two miners, then archer (probably better if used on a medium/long map)

I used to use just buying a single archer and then buying a second one, dual archers.

But then I realized I had little economy from the start, despite my fairly good offensive prowess, it wasn't good enough.

I dont suggest using sword miner on short maps, as comparing it to miner archer, you end up with a sword, a miner, and an archer in both cases, but in the case of archer miner archer you get a more immediate offensive. So in almost all cases miner archer is better than sword archer.

the two miner then archer (then a second archer) start is an okay start to use on med-short maps like halloween and desert, but isnt that good on castle. On medium maps, your archer usually comes a bit late, and if they send a sword, they can capture the center before you arrive to scare them away, making it take longer to take the center than if you did a miner archer start (which makes a second miner slower by only about 4 seconds)

@Failing Try using it on castle, where your offensive power can do the most damage. try not to engage in any combat before you get your second archer, as the health is limited and better used when firing two arrows instead of one. It can compete with other starts pretty well (if theres no lag)

Turtle?

Well, you could use the first start you mentioned (Sword+Miner into an Archer) on a medium map if you plan on going archer heavy, as that would give you tower early to make up for your (possibly) worse economy compared to the common starts on medium maps ( sword/sword/miner and sword/miner/miner)

Rage start? (lol)

uhhh Wall off?

There's a reason most starts require you to use your starting 500 gold, they're generally the most effective.

Looking back, FattyGoat usually charged with a sword-archer combo to keep the enemy buying more swords while he built up his economy and bought castle archer; so, even the turtle strategy benefits from using up all your gold first.

I tried experimenting with saving up my gold for a while, but I still couldn't work it out. My plan was to go sword-miner and then spearton, but invariably the sword gets killed before the spear gets out and it becomes more expedient to do a fattyturtle.

On long maps Grass Hills, the problem is reversed. Instead of having too little time to react, I find that I often reacted too early, and by the time my spearton has finally reached the enemy miners, the enemy has a vastly superior economy to mine, and is usually on the way to getting his own spearton as well.

Anyways, good luck with creating your own start.

I'm sure the fatty style turtle more consists of not trying to put out an offensive force, but getting soldiers to defend yourself until you can get a castle archer (without a large economy impact) since the CA can prevent most early assaults until they get a spearton, at which point you should have enough units or economy to get walls and units behind it to defend. Not sure exactly how it works, but I think I would probably need some practice with it, seeing as I last tried it a few months ago with one of my alts in the 1500s and 1600s.

Fattygoat churned out swords to stall until he could get a CA with literally no break in miner production.

on big maps I start out with 3 miners after making my two miners mine immediately then I build CA by that time they might have a sword and archer so if they rush me they will lose realy any sword they send at me, but my build has been countered with a early spearton so I don't recommend it at all times

Quote from CEREMONIAL17

on big maps I start out with 3 miners after making my two miners mine immediately then I build CA by that time they might have a sword and archer so if they rush me they will lose realy any sword they send at me, but my build has been countered with a early spearton so I don't recommend it at all times

Miner city (that's what my younger brother calls a full miner start) doesn't work well at all. Other person will easily get tower, get the 20 free gold per second (few seconds really, but you know) and have an army and be able to prevent your usage of your second gold row.

Generally, you have to be really good to pull off an offensive strategy, since the existence of the tower and limitations of castle unit ranges puts really makes offensive playstyles much more versatile, reliable and easier.

In my opinion turtling from the start on ANY map is a bad idea. Watch any of the top replays or the pros and I guarantee you that none of them will turtle from the start.
Also, CA are more effective on short maps, right?

Quote from Saegon

In my opinion turtling from the start on ANY map is a bad idea. Watch any of the top replays or the pros and I guarantee you that none of them will turtle from the start.
Also, CA are more effective on short maps, right?

On castle, one can cover approximately half the map, although, you're probably better off getting regular archers to harass economy.

Quote from Saegon

In my opinion turtling from the start on ANY map is a bad idea.

Grass hills OvO?

Quote from Saegon

In my opinion turtling from the start on ANY map is a bad idea. Watch any of the top replays or the pros and I guarantee you that none of them will turtle from the start.
Also, CA are more effective on short maps, right?

Ever watched fatty_ ? If not, then you should do it (except its too late...)

Quote from ShadowGeneralChaos

Ever watched fatty_ ? If not, then you should do it (except its too late...)

But still, fatty doesn't turtle from the start. He always send some swords to stall the opponent so he can get a CA. And on the off chance the opponent doesn't go to the tower, he gets the tower, and gets even more income.

I remember this video of fattygoat... it was OvC on grass hills, and he turtled by starting with archer sword. With some kiting, he managed to hold the mid tower from bombers long enough to get a mage and walls out before the other guy even regained the mid tower.

This, of course, was a video from last year, back when the best order start was archer sword. Ever since the meta changed to mono-archer or sword mass start, I haven't seen his replays.

Anyway, Saegon, I agree with you that most of the guys at the top don't turtle; but that doesn't mean turtling is unviable in any way.

@Ai A turtle start is just any start that focuses on economy and getting a CA out early game. It doesn't mean that you necessarily get a CA with your first gold.