Ok, I'm rated around 1600, but I think I'm pretty good, and I'm moderately well versed in the "good" SE strategies. Unlike a lot of the players around my rank, I have some idea of how to play for real instead of cheap massing. The problem is, probably the most popular strategy at my rank is the Spearton mass, which, although I know it's a bad strategy, I keep getting killed by. They don't even rush my statue, which is super easy to counter, but actually engage my army and keep winning. On short/medium maps I use the Spearcher strategy, and max out my population much faster than theirs. However, their Spearton mass keeps going for my archers, and I can't kite them all. My mages and merics keep getting sniped by the speartons before they can kill them all, and the rest of my army gets slaughtered.

I think the counter to a spear mass is albow/mage/meric +1 giant but by the time I catch on to their spearton mass I don't have much room left in my population, and I have too many archers already to replace them with albows. I can't even attack them because they usually have 2-3 CAs, and my military advantage doesn't seem to be sufficient to handle that.

So what I want to know is, how to deal with Spearton massers? Usually what I do early game against a CA turtle is to spam miners while pumping out archers, then once I get enough miners I get some to pray and get a Spearton, then I get the tower spawn. If I then discover a spear mass, what to do? Perhaps somebody could post a replay showing how to do this.

Here's a replay of me getting destroyed by a spear masser:
www.stickempires.com/play?replay=replay4839566&version=1.92

I suggest you get more swordwrath at the beginning and tech them up to speaton mid game, so you don't rely too much on archers early game. Use raging swordwrath to destroy their speartons, and make your army just stronger than there's. Constantly harass. After, switch to albowtross and speartons, and morph to shadowrath-albows late game.

If they don't spearton mass, don't follow this.


I would give you a replay, but there's no spearton massers at my level

Albowtross.

Also, as with every kind of mass, it's easiest to try to prevent someone from being able to do it in the first place by harassing their economy to slow down their unit production.

Maybe you should scout more?

Quote from FailingAtFailing

Albowtross.

Also, as with every kind of mass, it's easiest to try to prevent someone from being able to do it in the first place by harassing their economy to slow down their unit production.

This is pretty much the answer. As soon as you see a lot of spears it may be tempting to max out archer to harass them but thats just bad for the end game. Try to get albows instead. Your opponent didn't even spear rush correctly. Actually, i've been spear rushed by maxchiang before, only he was able to harass me early on with spears.

Quote from FailingAtFailing

Albowtross.

Also, as with every kind of mass, it's easiest to try to prevent someone from being able to do it in the first place by harassing their economy to slow down their unit production.

I know, I wanted to do that but his CA was stopping me early game and I didn't think my army was strong enough to get past his numerous walls and CAs (not to mention spears) without significant losses.

Quote from fhtrg

I suggest you get more swordwrath at the beginning and tech them up to speaton mid game, so you don't rely too much on archers early game. Use raging swordwrath to destroy their speartons

They never bother to attack the tower until the very end, and swordwrath get torn apart by CAs. The only way to take them out is to attack their base, which requires speartons.

Quote from 59saintdane

I know, I wanted to do that but his CA was stopping me early game and I didn't think my army was strong enough to get past his numerous walls and CAs (not to mention spears) without significant losses.



They never bother to attack the tower until the very end, and swordwrath get torn apart by CAs. The only way to take them out is to attack their base, which requires speartons.

How would you lose albows if the ghost/spears in shield mode are tanking for you?

You can shoot at above stated walls with above stated albows well out of range of the above mentioned castle archers.

Castle Archer only shoots out to slightly past second row of gold, and a unit stationed just outside that range can essentially halve an army's gold output (unless they attack said harassers) and destroy almost any wall put in place, as long as it isn't built as close to the statue as possible.

Quote from Saegon

How would you lose albows if the ghost/spears in shield mode are tanking for you?

Well, the ghost gets torn apart quite quickly by 3 CAs and a bunch of speartons, and so would my army. The early game is the only time I have an opportunity to harass, after that he turtles up and is very difficult to get past. Of course, I can simply use my albows while the ghost tanks like you suggested, but that only works early on before he gets 3 CAs and a ton of speartons (and I might not even have many albows by then), after that it's all out war.

Anyway, thanks for all the tips, hopefully I will be able to beat the next spear masser that comes along.

I would suggest using a spear-allbow formation. Blazing bolts were practically designed to kill speartons; I never counted, but I think it takes about 6 bolts to kill a spearton. That sounds like a lot, but if you were allbow massing, you'd be killing one spearton per volley.

6 bolts to kill a spearton? Good god what game have you been playing?
The actual number was 17 bolts before the burn change btw, so its probably more 17 now.

Quote from 59saintdane

Well, the ghost gets torn apart quite quickly by 3 CAs and a bunch of speartons, and so would my army. The early game is the only time I have an opportunity to harass, after that he turtles up and is very difficult to get past. Of course, I can simply use my albows while the ghost tanks like you suggested, but that only works early on before he gets 3 CAs and a ton of speartons (and I might not even have many albows by then), after that it's all out war.

Anyway, thanks for all the tips, hopefully I will be able to beat the next spear masser that comes along.

You do know, even when the ghost dies, Albows are armoured, so it would take like 10 castle archer arrows (really rough estimate) to kill one. In that time you can probably kill many miners or Speartons. On top of the amount you killed while the giant was still alive.

Quote from jerrytt

6 bolts to kill a spearton? Good god what game have you been playing?
The actual number was 17 bolts before the burn change btw, so its probably more 17 now.

I did say I never counted. Sort of hard to count how many arrows are required; but I do recall one match where I allbow massed against a spearton rusher. I counted that I killed at least one spearton per volley, so I made a rough guesstimate as to how many allbows I had at the time, and decided it was probably 6.

However, upon more reflection, I realize that I had CA level 2 and that some of his spears were damaged previously by my own spears; so it's probably more than that.

Now I'm starting to face a new, more skilled breed of spearton masser where they harass my economy by rushing in and killing miners, then running away. It's especially bad on short maps, and I can't stop them from doing this. How do I counter it?

Quote from 59saintdane

Now I'm starting to face a new, more skilled breed of spearton masser where they harass my economy by rushing in and killing miners, then running away. It's especially bad on short maps, and I can't stop them from doing this. How do I counter it?

Maybe try to pull a fatty turtle by building walls and placing Magikill and ranged units behind it. Or take the tower. The tower is one of the best things to have in Stick Empires. More room to kite, harassment opportunities, free gold, ghost spawn etc.