Quote from Smile

I think pedophilia is something different because it involves minors that can't really think for themselves or don't know what they want yet. If in 60 years humans mature at the age of 8 (like, sexually, emotionally, mentally and physically), then I guess it can be possible, but I don't think that will happen.

I mean, I can see a lot (e.g. incest*, necrophilia, prostitution, euthanasia) as things that may possibly be socially acceptable 60 years from now, but I think there also a lot of things that won't change (e.g. pedophilia, zoophilia) because they sort of violate some sort of right. At least, that's what I think anyway.

*not too sure about this one though. It gives you a higher possibility of having a fucked up offspring, so if you decide to have a kid then I guess it's still not a good idea.

Once again, you're missing the point. No one here is equating homosexuality with zoophilia or pedophilia, we're pointing out a fact that sixty years ago, people looked upon homosexuality with the same disgust, so we have no clue what society will and won't deem acceptable. It would be very arrogant on our parts to assume we know how society will/won't change.

Many people used to argue that homosexuality violates certain fundamental laws too. Modern western society is rapidly moving away from 'rights' and placing more emphasis on 'freedoms', which is why it is not totally unthinkable that society in 60 years will find pedophilia acceptable. You're assuming that society 60 years from now will still think along the same lines and same priorities as we will.

Some scientist will come along and publish a 'finding' that sexual maturity is not a necessity for sexual relations, simply for procreation, and that recreational sex is fine. Then all of society will jump on that bandwagon too. I'm not saying it WILL happen, I'm saying we can never EVER say that it won't happen, seeing how quickly attitudes to homosexuality have changed.

Quote from Nish

Once again, you're missing the point. No one here is equating homosexuality with zoophilia or pedophilia, we're pointing out a fact that sixty years ago, people looked upon homosexuality with the same disgust, so we have no clue what society will and won't deem acceptable. It would be very arrogant on our parts to assume we know how society will/won't change.

Many people used to argue that homosexuality violates certain fundamental laws too. Modern western society is rapidly moving away from 'rights' and placing more emphasis on 'freedoms', which is why it is not totally unthinkable that society in 60 years will find pedophilia acceptable. You're assuming that society 60 years from now will still think along the same lines and same priorities as we will.

Some scientist will come along and publish a 'finding' that sexual maturity is not a necessity for sexual relations, simply for procreation, and that recreational sex is fine. Then all of society will jump on that bandwagon too. I'm not saying it WILL happen, I'm saying we can never EVER say that it won't happen, seeing how quickly attitudes to homosexuality have changed.

Ok I get your point.

Quote from Nish

we're pointing out a fact that sixty years ago, people looked upon homosexuality with the same disgust, so we have no clue what society will and won't deem acceptable. It would be very arrogant on our parts to assume we know how society will/won't change.

that's a strange thing to say immediately after citing the fact that you used to reach the conclusion that pedophilia might become socially acceptable in the future. you even came up with a hypothetical explanation for how it might happen. but suggesting it won't happen is a wildly arrogant assumption that no one can possibly defend? seriously?

you sound like you believe all of this is common sense or based in fact to the degree that anyone who disagrees with it must be missing the point, but pretty much everything you're saying is up for debate. I could easily suggest that murder has never become socially acceptable over time, so other behaviors that cause measurable harm to society (such as sexually abusing children) probably won't become acceptable either. same exact logic, different conclusion. what's so hard about that?

Quote from Exilement

that's a strange thing to say immediately after citing the fact that you used to reach the conclusion that pedophilia might become socially acceptable in the future. you even came up with a hypothetical explanation for how it might happen. but suggesting it won't happen is a wildly arrogant assumption that no one can possibly defend? seriously?

you sound like you believe all of this is common sense or based in fact to the degree that anyone who disagrees with it must be missing the point, but pretty much everything you're saying is up for debate. I could easily suggest that murder has never become socially acceptable over time, so other behaviors that cause measurable harm to society (such as sexually abusing children) probably won't become acceptable either. same exact logic, different conclusion. what's so hard about that?

Can someone move this to the debate thread? I would like to post a lengthy rebuttal to this but I'm not sure if it'll be on-topic with the original poster's intentions.

Quote from Smile

I don't think that'll happen tbh. It's not like kids will be smarter and be more responsible of their decisions after 60 years so that they can be allowed to have a relationship with much older men.

You think only men can be paedophiles?

Quote from Nish

Can someone move this to the debate thread? I would like to post a lengthy rebuttal to this but I'm not sure if it'll be on-topic with the original poster's intentions.

Yes I do believe it has earned the right to be.

Carry on.

Quote from Nish

Can someone move this to the debate thread? I would like to post a lengthy rebuttal to this but I'm not sure if it'll be on-topic with the original poster's intentions.

I'd rather not, I agree that we can't reasonably predict what society will be like even in the near future, I just thought you were being a little aggressive with smile. your entire argument was based on how much social views of homosexuality have changed in the last 60 years, but whether that's even relevant to how society views something like pedophilia is completely up for debate and smile didn't agree with your interpretation of it. neither did I. there are plenty of other factors to consider in a discussion about this kind of thing and you seemed unwilling to acknowledge any of them except for the single point your argument was built around.

that's all I was trying to say, but if you want to start a debate about this go ahead.

edit: nevermind then

When I want to start a debate about it, I didn't mean it in its aggressive or hostile sense, merely that I was wanted to drift off topic from the original poster's intention.

Quote from Exilement

that's a strange thing to say immediately after citing the fact that you used to reach the conclusion that pedophilia might become socially acceptable in the future. you even came up with a hypothetical explanation for how it might happen. but suggesting it won't happen is a wildly arrogant assumption that no one can possibly defend? seriously?

They key word here is MIGHT. I think it is arrogant to say that it DEFINITELY won't which is what our buddy Smile was suggesting. Its all hypothetical, like you pointed out, so I was pointing out too that when it comes to hypotheticals, most forms of definite statements cannot be defended in good conscience.

Quote from Exilement

you sound like you believe all of this is common sense or based in fact to the degree that anyone who disagrees with it must be missing the point, but pretty much everything you're saying is up for debate. I could easily suggest that murder has never become socially acceptable over time, so other behaviors that cause measurable harm to society (such as sexually abusing children) probably won't become acceptable either. same exact logic, different conclusion. what's so hard about that?

Not at all. I firmly oppose pedophilia, but my point is that people's attitudes towards murder HAS changed. We have variations of murder now, we have varying attitudes on manslaughter, per-meditated murder, assassination, capital punishment, killing in self-defense. There are countries like India where 60 years ago, Child marraige was still legal, we have Islamic countries in the middle east where a girl can still be married when she is 8 years old.

It is our society's viewpoint right now that sexual relations harm children. I'm saying its not entirely inconceivable that some liberal doctor somewhere will say that sex is a beautiful thing which does not corrupt children if done properly. They might find isolated instances of historical backing and of occurances in the animal kingdom to justify this, much like the initial scientific movement to support homosexuality began (not that I'm comparing the legitimacy of the two, I'm simply stating what people do). Lets not forget that all cultures, from Japanese to Greek to Islamic has vast traces of pedagogy and pedophilia in it, which is why I am disputing anyone who claims that they know FOR CERTAIN what society's attitude towards sex would be.

Apart from that, there is nothing to debate. I respect both yours and Smile's opinion, and I didn't realise I was coming across as aggressive towards his stance. Perhaps I made my point too forcefully when force was completely uncalled for. I only asked for the move to the Debate section as to not violate the General Section's sanctity.

These type of topics come up so often.

I think whether being gay is a choice or not, i think they should have the choice to get married. It does not physically hurt anyone. Everyone is allowed their believes, the reason i go to pride rallys is 1. I'm not a heterosexual 2. They don't get the choice.

You have the choice of your religion and beliefs. If you think that being homosexual is wrong, then you can. Just like racists can hate a certain race. But LGBTQ community doesn't get the choice. They fight for the choice to get married. A black man is a citizen, some people hate that idea, but it doesn't matter because the black man still can be what he wants, he just deals with the hate. LGBTQ wan't to get married, some people hate that, but it does matter because they don't get the choice to be married. It's one sided.

Unless gay marriage is going to kill a baby or murder thousands, i don't see the problem, even if you "ew" at it. It's strictly between that male/female and their partner.



Towards the video: The little girl (She is seen at 7:38) is probably the truest reaction. She has 0 influence. She has never seen gay marriage, apparently her parents have never talked to her about it. It's new to her. She simply doesn't care. Doesn't make her a lesbian. Doesn't make her a bad person, she simply doesn't find anything wrong with it.

Adults with influences are what cause a lot of these hates. If you take 2 children who are different, and put them together. They really don't see much except another person. Parents influence behavior along with society. Society hates dogs, tell your kids dogs are bad, then your kid will grow up not like dogs. Ask them why, they'll repeat what their parents told them as why.

That's my scoop

Quote from Pin

These type of topics come up so often.

I think whether being gay is a choice or not, i think they should have the choice to get married. It does not physically hurt anyone. Everyone is allowed their believes, the reason i go to pride rallys is 1. I'm not a heterosexual 2. They don't get the choice.

You have the choice of your religion and beliefs. If you think that being homosexual is wrong, then you can. Just like racists can hate a certain race. But LGBTQ community doesn't get the choice. They fight for the choice to get married. A black man is a citizen, some people hate that idea, but it doesn't matter because the black man still can be what he wants, he just deals with the hate. LGBTQ wan't to get married, some people hate that, but it does matter because they don't get the choice to be married. It's one sided.

Unless gay marriage is going to kill a baby or murder thousands, i don't see the problem, even if you "ew" at it. It's strictly between that male/female and their partner.



Towards the video: The little girl (She is seen at 7:38) is probably the truest reaction. She has 0 influence. She has never seen gay marriage, apparently her parents have never talked to her about it. It's new to her. She simply doesn't care. Doesn't make her a lesbian. Doesn't make her a bad person, she simply doesn't find anything wrong with it.

Adults with influences are what cause a lot of these hates. If you take 2 children who are different, and put them together. They really don't see much except another person. Parents influence behavior along with society. Society hates dogs, tell your kids dogs are bad, then your kid will grow up not like dogs. Ask them why, they'll repeat what their parents told them as why.

That's my scoop

But this has almost nothing to do with whats being discussed. No one debated whether being gay is wrong or not, or whether they should be married. (Unless you were referring solely to the original video and nothing else in the thread that followed it).

Quote from Nish

But this has almost nothing to do with whats being discussed. No one debated whether being gay is wrong or not, or whether they should be married. (Unless you were referring solely to the original video and nothing else in the thread that followed it).

I was referring to the thread. If we're not debating anything involving the thread shouldn't there be a new topic? :I

Quote from Pin

I was referring to the thread. If we're not debating anything involving the thread shouldn't there be a new topic? :I

It was moved from the General section to the Debate thread solely for the topics following the original post.

Moved back to General Discussion since there wasn't really much of a debate anyway.

This scene explains my entire philosophy of this video.

"What.....the f**k........."

~Crylex

Quote from Nish

I'm saying its not entirely inconceivable that some liberal doctor somewhere will say that sex is a beautiful thing which does not corrupt children if done properly.

Oh hey Bill O'Reilly, I didn't know you roamed these parts. :D