ninjas can one shot. if they manage to avoid the possesion and also manage to catch up the v and even if they do teleporting as an easily accesible feature combined with the fact that even if the shadow retreats the teleport spell can allow for an easy catchup and take and tank. killing the shadow and whatever you use the shadow against. combined with the fact that one would have to micro their shadows as to get close to the v or multiple v's in the case of a v mass one can easily tank with (the clones, stolen shadowrath, stolen albow) with the support of other v's and ranged units supporting as well as the case of water support one can effectively avoid harassment if they dont allow the order player to camp at base.
which mystery stated IF THEY ARE ALLOWED TO SETUP which in any empire allowing the opponent to go about building as they please deserves a stern wag of the finger.
@Hash
luigistall3 lol
@Mysterybat's chaos post:
tell em how it is.
For myself and i think mystery will agree with me
ele has a really tough time vs any chaos player that knows what they are doing. map size tends to affect gameplay a lot more than micro or macro that either player really does.
as ele has no direct way of dealing with bombs early game chaos can effectively cripple an elemental players eco if they dont do something quickly to counter the bomb rush. i tend to go for hustle as soon as possible vs chaos simply to spite bombs. I try to rush my eco out to second row as chaos wont have a plethera of ranged units out until round about 1:45-2 mins in. which is start to make fires to attempt to push outward into the center of map if i dont already have it.
the main thing i see in the relationship between wings and ele is that the wing range allows for them to kite ele units at a distance at which ele ranged units themselves can be relatively close to the wings just not close enough. for me i could be directly underneath a wing and only be able to get 2 foward kites at the most which the arcing projectile begins to not land as it should. airs dont really have a tanky unit to defend themselves as attempting to micro one unit that uses melee (which due to the health nerf really is a hit-and-run support caster instead of an effective anti-air unit as was its main purpose) and having a ranged unit that cannot kite at all really is not effective. not to mention the que time that airs have.
i dont really play chaos all that much but i find it to require much more micro than the other two empires. not sure if thats just me but for now this is how i feel about that
In my mind , a chaos player who knows how to early micro crawlers and bombers, even he is 1.8k or something, is enough to beat a 2.3k+ elemental player
The reason is that most elemental players nowadays only know how to EvO, but suck in EvC.
After I read pumu's post, this is one of the best post I have seen in this month, about "tend to go for hustle as soon as possible vs chaos simply to spite bombs" . I believe most players won't do this ,
or they don't even realize they have to do this.
For EvC, up till now I still cannot say which build can really counter chaos well. Because every build in my mind has some weaknesses.
Two months ago I created two elemental builds for myself, which worked pretty well against chaos players, but still most testings are needed.
In the side of chaos players, 3 Medusa + 1 marrowkai + X wings are unbeatable in CvE.
As an elemental player, counter chaos is a challenge starting from the very first second to the end,both macro and micro are big challenges.
Macro wise, the early start, the med game units , have many choices, which are all risky against chaos. Micro wise, not only to protect miners against early bomber rush, but also to chase wing mass with cycloid, deal with medusa poison pool with water, not to allow marrowkai reap V.
All are TOUGH JOBS, what I mean tough is really really tough.
One chaos player, who is the very few one I think is at a satisfactory level, is champ344, who is 2.2k chaos player and play CvE well.
If any elemental player can win against him, I think it is a great success already.
Up till now in terms of EvC, so far only two starts are viable.
One is 3 earth start, give you a nice eco in the beginning, but then you are opened to all chaos bomber and crawler pressure in the first two minutes. You cannot send your earths to the centre because crawlers can kill all of them with animation cancel. Castle air is a stupid approach because it is single target and cannot stop multiple bombers.
One is fire start, which is quite viable in short map and stop all bomber pressure. But in med map, it gives a shitty eco, and even you hold the centre, chaos players have an upper hand in eco and able to get a wing much earlier. The worst thing is, fire is 450 gold, 2 crawlers + 3 bombers = 425 gold, which are enough to kill one fire instantly. Once your first fire die, you lose. So it is extremely risky and the first fire is quite useless once the first wing comes out.
But even though EvC is very difficult, I still don't suggest any further patches for elemental units. It will just make the situation worse without fully comprehend the game run. Only two top priorities for elemental patch are Tower Spawn 2 and Blind Gate.
And finally, talking about chaos, itself is a bit op in top level(2.4k+), no going to repeat this anymore. Its macro is easy, and med game unit micros are also easy comparing with other two empires. The only difficult part is the early game micro, once a player can handle it, reaching 2.3k+ with chaos is not difficult at all.
