After seeing the Abstractions' lack of understandable, cohesive gameplay mechanics regardless of help offered, I have decided to make a kit containing some basic stat mechanics that are directly tied to a dice roll system. Anybody is free to use/modify this system, so long as they credit me by either mentioning me as the creator of this system or by linking this thread. I am making this thing off the top of my head, so here goes.

Attributes - The character starts with 5 AP to distribute among these 7 fields; Base value is 5. You gain attribute points at every five levels, dependent on your Fortitude.

- Fortitude [FORT]: Represents how healthy your character is. This attribute governs how many hitpoints you have (HP = 1/2 FORT x 10 so, at base level, you have 30 hitpoints.), how resistant to poison your body is (Resist = 1d END + FORT determines how much poison damage you resist. At base level, you can resist 5-10 poison damage), your base resistance to disease (5 x FORT. / 100 = 25% at base level), and how many AP you gain (AP = 1d FORT; up to 5 AP at base level).

- Strength [STR]: Represents how strong your character is. This attribute governs how much stuff you can carry (5 x STR +10 = 35 kg at base level or 77 lbs), how much melee damage you do (Unarmed damage= 1d STR + 1/2 gauntlet armor rating; weapon damage = #d6 + base + STR), how much weight you can lift over your head (10 x STR = 50 kg at base level or 110 lbs), how much weight you can push/pull (flat object = 10 x STR + 5; Round object = 20 x STR + 5, so you can move flat objects of up to 55 kg and round objects of up to 105 kg at base level. That's 121 lbs and 231 lbs respectively.), and how fast you can swing a weapon (ATK = 5 x STR - weapon weight. You can punch at a speed of up to 25 mph at base level, as fists weigh nothing when unarmored)

- Endurance [END]: Represents how tough your character is. This attribute governs your natural damage resistance (1d6 + END + armor rating. You resist at least 6 damage without armor at base level), your force resistance (15 x END = 75 kg of force at base level, or 165 lbs) and your stamina points (SP = 1/2 END x 10, or 30 SP at base level). In addition, if you are hit with a blunt weapon and the impact force is less than your max resistance, you only take half of any physical damage (blunt/crushing weapons deal DMG x STR kg in impact force).

- Dexterity [DEX]: Represents how nimble your character is. This attribute governs your ability to dodge (dodge speed = 1d6 x DEX + STR, or up to 35mph. If this exceeds the swing speed of the attack, you successfully dodge.), your efficiency in close quarters (Weapon reach - DEX = minimum attack distance) and your ability to fit into small spaces (You can move through a gap that is your minimum width + 1 / DEX, or your width + 1/5 at base level.)

- Intelligence [INT]: Represents how clever your character is. This attribute governs how fast your skills improve (Skill points per level = INT, or 5 skill points at base level), how powerful of a spell you can cast (Basic spells require at least 7 INT), and how easily you can solve problems (INT save = 1d6 + INT, or up to 11 at base level. If your roll exceeds the difference by which the opponent passed their skill roll, the solution is revealed.)

- Charisma [CHA]: Represents how charming your character is. This attribute governs how convincing you are (Add your CHA as a bonus to all social skill rolls), how appealing you are to the opposite sex (CHA - 5 is added to any skill roll against the opposite sex), and how good of an impression you make on people (Each CHA point above 5 adds +1 to a speech check against a stranger).

- Willpower [WPR]: Represents the resilience of your character's mind. This attribute governs how much you resist attempts to sway your opinion (Will save = 1d6 + WPR, or 3d6 + WPR if countering the opponent's skill), how often you can cast spells (Mana = 1/2 WPR x 10, or 30 mana at base level), and your resistance to psionics (add WPR - 5 to any will save vs a psionic opponent)

Skills - Players start with 30 skill points to spend on whichever skills available (spells are treated like skills). Skill rolls are represented by 3d6, where you must roll a value lower than your skill level. Rolling 4 or less is a critical success, while 16 or more is a critical failure below level 16. When a skill reaches level 20, you must roll 17 to fail, and 18 to critically fail. Every ten levels beyond 20 adds +1 to the skill roll. If you do not know a skill, you must roll below its governing attribute to perform it.

If you pass a skill roll the opponent must perform an attribute roll that exceeds the difference by which you passed your roll or roll better than you with the same skill to counter it. For example, if you are shooting a gun at an opponent, and your skill with that gun is 14, you must roll a 13 or less to successfully attack. If you roll a 10, the opponent must perform a DEX save and roll a 5 or more, or they can attempt to fire their own gun and shoot your bullet out of the air. To do this, the opponent must pass their own skill with a difference of 5 or more.

I will not list a set of skills here, because those are up to a game's creator to decide. I am just giving a framework for game creation. If you have any questions, you may ask them here and I will answer as best I can, though I can't guarantee I will have all the answers. Aside from questions, please give me your comment & critique. Especially you, Nish, since you have a good sense of these things.

This sounds like an incomplete description of the rules to an extremely specific type of game rather than a general-purpose template for a wide variety of gametypes.

I honestly don't think more than 5-10 people in this forum are capable of creating an original and balanced game on their own, and the rest aren't going to be able to make one out of the structure you're providing here. Especially if you're just coming up with this off the top of your head.

But that's just my two cents.

Quote from Exilement

This sounds like an incomplete description of the rules to an extremely specific type of game rather than a general-purpose template for a wide variety of gametypes.

I honestly don't think more than 5-10 people in this forum are capable of creating an original and balanced game on their own, and the rest aren't going to be able to make one out of the structure you're providing here. Especially if you're just coming up with this off the top of your head.

But that's just my two cents.

This is generally meant for a table-top RPG similar to D&D or GURPS. I will likely use this system in a game of my own and I will edit the thread title to clarify. As for usability, please refer to the first paragraph. All base values are meant to be edited, and you can certainly edit the stats and such to your heart's content.

Oh I see. I'm not very familiar with tabletop RPGs so I guess I'm speaking from ignorance. You sound like you know what you're doing.

Quote from Exilement

Oh I see. I'm not very familiar with tabletop RPGs so I guess I'm speaking from ignorance. You sound like you know what you're doing.

http://www.goddessfantasy.net/Upload/gurps/4E_Basic_Set_Characters.pdf This is the GURPS creation kit, which is the game I played. It's very sandbox, but is also has so much detail that it takes an experienced GM to make a campaign for it and be able to keep track of all this AND the plot.

But this is all stuff that a simple google search will tell you, right? Do we need a separate thread for this?

Well, some people have their Google-fu rendered inert from their...err...'spasms'.

You're talking as if we can't spoonfeed Wither enough.

so tempted to rename this thread the Sons of Wither Toolkit

cos you know, they're tools.

Quote from Nish

But this is all stuff that a simple google search will tell you, right? Do we need a separate thread for this?

You can easily google search for info on animating, but there are separate threads for that here. Why search for it there if it's already here? Besides, it might benefit some people to use these tools, and that's why i created them.

Quote from Hewitt

so tempted to rename this thread the Sons of Wither Toolkit

cos you know, they're tools.

You made a funny.

Quote from GrimmtheReaper

You can easily google search for info on animating, but there are separate threads for that here. Why search for it there if it's already here? Besides, it might benefit some people to use these tools, and that's why i created them.

Ok why are you getting defensive instead of explaining why it's useful in the first place? The reasons that you gave so far make no sense. If they're creating a game without bothering to research these 'tools', then its going to end up in the bin anyway. The comparison to animation is also really silly because this isn't about gamemaking or game running or providing feedback, it is about one particular set in one particular aspect of one particular type of gaming. Its not even like you came up with a new set of stats. This is exactly the same thing as any D&D or RPG game. Strength, Endurance, Charisma, Dexterity etc. If you had included something unique in it, then I guess this thread would serve some utility. But right now these are the same stats we've seen in every other RPG that we already know about.

Its up to the mods anyway. If they feel this "information" is relevant enough to stay here, I have no problem with it. I just feel that there are two kinds of game masters. Those who put effort into it, and those who don't. The former type will research all this and know it anyway. The latter type will not put any research and this thread is NOT going to change things for them.

Quote from Nish

Ok why are you getting defensive instead of explaining why it's useful in the first place? The reasons that you gave so far make no sense. If they're creating a game without bothering to research these 'tools', then its going to end up in the bin anyway. The comparison to animation is also really silly because this isn't about gamemaking or game running or providing feedback, it is about one particular set in one particular aspect of one particular type of gaming. Its not even like you came up with a new set of stats. This is exactly the same thing as any D&D or RPG game. Strength, Endurance, Charisma, Dexterity etc. If you had included something unique in it, then I guess this thread would serve some utility. But right now these are the same stats we've seen in every other RPG that we already know about.

Its up to the mods anyway. If they feel this "information" is relevant enough to stay here, I have no problem with it. I just feel that there are two kinds of game masters. Those who put effort into it, and those who don't. The former type will research all this and know it anyway. The latter type will not put any research and this thread is NOT going to change things for them.

Wait a second. I believe I may have included a few things that are either new or rare. The biggest one I see is possibly the Attack Speed mechanic that determines how fast your weapon is moving during the attack. No tabletop/forum RPG I've ever played uses speed to determine how fast your attacks are; only how often you can swing them. A second possibility is the mechanic that determines how many centimeters bigger than your body a hole has to be for you to fit through it based on Dexterity and size. A third unique mechanic is the way dodging is determined. Rather than making it a contest of your DEX vs their skill, it's a contest of how fast you are moving out of the way and how fast their weapon is moving towards you. This, I think, adds a bit more realism to it because using this system, a successful gunshot cannot easily be dodged, but may be countered. While the 7 attributes are the same, some of those stats they govern are not so common.

You are right about this, but you imply that those who don't put enough effort into it will never change. I won't argue that my thread will make a difference, but it could serve as a reference that can be worked with.

Wait wait wait, so you made this thread for the purpose of giving Wither and his Sons something to use for whatever future venture they might have? Then its pretty useless. You're showing us the backend of whatever polished game that's going to come out. The literal toolset. Do you see me, Devour, and Cook, making an entire thread that explains the tiny elements and moving parts of RTU or Voyager before actually making RTU and Voyager?

It's been, what. How many months since Invictus got binned and you guys still aren't getting it. You people keep saying that you will make x game someday that will be everything anyone has ever dreamed of without it being a completely abstract thing. And this toolset is suppose to be a reference to making the perfect game. You've all done everything BUT make a perfect game thus far, encircling the issue instead of downright tackling it.

Guess what, this toolset is also abstract as fuck. What do we care that attack speed and dodge speed are different elements? What do we care that Scorch uses an RNG as he had been constantly mouthing about when he made his thread? What do we care that Wither uses arithmetic and pictures to help his game work? Mechanics are all manner of what's under-the-hood are all for YOUR benefit to utilize. Players don't give a shit about that. And as previously mentioned if they can easily google this, then they can find it, tune it to their specifications, and run it all on their own.

For example, my Monolith RP uses the Unisystem (i even mention this in my first post). Captain Cook uses a variant of the DND D20 system (im just assuming seeing as he asked me about it prior). My SP Life? It's actually modified from another existing Forum Game system but you'd never know that if I didn't say it now. Mafia is based on other forum game Mafias. Standoff is based on a card game called Cash N Gunz (I also mention this in that thread). Even The Chamber my very very first crappy game (which I actually enjoyed running) is based on a manga idea that I had to tweak. I and Cook and Devour have, before making our games, already googled something that you have done prior to making our games. Research. It's why it works.

You don't see US explaining the intricacies of both systems. We just happen to run it. Dodge speed and Attack Speed my ass. Those elements are already in my Monolith, but you wouldn't know that even if you were a player because these things are for me to utilize behind the scenes.

I don't understand what you want to accomplish here because it's really simple: if you don't want a crappy incomplete abstract game, then take your time to craft it. Finding a system such as what you have done is pointless. You're still, like Wither and Scorch looking for an easy way to achieve something that takes time to plan out.

Also for future reference refer to my thread which I explicitly created for people who make crappy games and PM me about making a game someday: http://forums.stickpage.com/showthread.php?80218-Being-a-Successful-Hoster-rant

Don't forget to view my second post below

Quote from Hewitt

It's been, what. How many months since Invictus got binned

I don't know and I don't care. Ever since then I have seen nothing but "Sons of Wither" this and "Wither Abstraction" that almost to the point where the term no longer amuses me enough to joke about it. I'm sick and tired of having this fucking title shoved on me simply for being Wither's friend and despite the fact that I have been waiting for this bullshit to die down, you continue to rope me up in it. Let it die.

Quote from GrimmtheReaper

I don't know and I don't care. Ever since then I have seen nothing but "Sons of Wither" this and "Wither Abstraction" that almost to the point where the term no longer amuses me enough to joke about it. I'm sick and tired of having this fucking title shoved on me simply for being Wither's friend and despite the fact that I have been waiting for this bullshit to die down, you continue to rope me up in it. Let it die.

I think his whole point is that you guys don't let it die. You are not refuting any of his points about "You people keep saying that you will make x game someday that will be everything anyone has ever dreamed of without it being a completely abstract thing. And this toolset is suppose to be a reference to making the perfect game. You've all done everything BUT make a perfect game thus far, encircling the issue instead of downright tackling it."

Create a good game, and then the whole Sons of Wither / Wither's Abstraction saga will die down (OR you will be successfully disassociated from it). Until then, don't tell him that it's tiresome. The only real tiresome thing around here is a bunch of irrelevant and badly thought out game concepts.

Quote from Nish

I think his whole point is that you guys don't let it die. You are not refuting any of his points about "You people keep saying that you will make x game someday that will be everything anyone has ever dreamed of without it being a completely abstract thing. And this toolset is suppose to be a reference to making the perfect game. You've all done everything BUT make a perfect game thus far, encircling the issue instead of downright tackling it."

Create a good game, and then the whole Sons of Wither / Wither's Abstraction saga will die down (OR you will be successfully disassociated from it). Until then, don't tell him that it's tiresome. The only real tiresome thing around here is a bunch of irrelevant and badly thought out game concepts.

Not a perfect game, but an acceptable/tolerable one. The toolset is by no means perfect. I did not feel it was necessary to refute that point because he was essentially putting words in my mouth that I never said.

You make a good point here. Since I have the mechanics I need, I can devote my thoughts to the storyline.