Quote from Vorpal

Not in my opinion. They can eat eggs and drink milk, but any meat at all should be contrary to being a vegetarian.

I'm glad you bring this up, because this is where the interesting part comes in: legally speaking, veal is classified as a dairy product. So, as Lacto-Ovo quite literally means "Dairy and Eggs," does not veal, as a dairy product, qualify as something they're capable of eating?

Quote from Azure

I'm glad you bring this up, because this is where the interesting part comes in: legally speaking, veal is classified as a dairy product. So, as Lacto-Ovo quite literally means "Dairy and Eggs," does not veal, as a dairy product, qualify as something they're capable of eating?

that's why I say in my opinion.

Because I'm sure it's not beyond people to take advantage of this technicality.
I doubt people that don't want to hurt animals would though.

Considering what veal is.

Quote from Vorpal

that's why I say in my opinion.

Because I'm sure it's not beyond people to take advantage of this technicality.
I doubt people that don't want to hurt animals would though.

Considering what veal is.

True, though it can also be argued that their eating eggs is in a similar category. Despite not being fertilized, there was still the potential for life. In the case of veal, this life is further along, though depending on conditions, one might say it's better that they're put out of their misery young. But then I ask, would somebody who only eats beef and vegetables, in a manner similar to a pescatarian, be allowed to eat veal?

Veal is conscious and capable of feeling. Eggs aren't. That classification is dumb imo.

Quote from Salt

Veal is conscious and capable of feeling. Eggs aren't. That classification is dumb imo.

Comparison, not classification, and the point isn't that one is "conscious" and one isn't, it's that both had the potential to live full lives, and they did not, and because of the classification of veal as a dairy product, it should theoretically be a potential meal for lacto-ovo vegetarians. Are you disagreeing with this?

Quote from Azure

But then I ask, would somebody who only eats beef and vegetables, in a manner similar to a pescatarian, be allowed to eat veal?

This is probably a dumb answer, but then, your answer is confusing. I believe yes, because I thought veal is a dairy product? Where'd you get these sort of questions, Philoraptor?

Quote from Azure

Comparison, not classification, and the point isn't that one is "conscious" and one isn't, it's that both had the potential to live full lives, and they did not, and because of the classification of veal as a dairy product, it should theoretically be a potential meal for lacto-ovo vegetarians. Are you disagreeing with this?

I disagree, as chickens obviously have to lay eggs fertilized or not. Which if the egg isn't fertilized then it actually has no potential for life at all at that point it's really just nutrients intended for a fetus that doesn't exist. Cows need to be milked, it's actually uncomfortable for them to have full udders, just like chickens need to lay eggs.

We're talking about a type of food in milk and eggs which don't inherently harm animals. As someone that grew up ranching, I can tell yah that you can get eggs and milk from animals that are taken good care of.

But veal, there's pretty much no mistake here. To make veal what it is, the baby cow has to essentially be tortured for their short 20 weeks alive.

Likewise, I'm a meat eater and I don't eat veal. Knowing what it really is.

lmao what the fuck is azure talking about. he said veal is legally considered a dairy product and no one blinks an eye? all I can find to back this up:

"Because male calves will not grow up to produce milk, they are considered of little value to the dairy farmer and are sold for meat. Millions of these calves are taken away to be raised for beef. Hundreds of thousands of other male calves born into the dairy industry are raised for veal. Many people consider veal to be cruel, but they don’t realize that veal production is a product of the dairy industry."


just like how leather is a product of the beef industry. that doesn't equate to 'leather is legally beef' and it definitely doesn't make a leather burrito any better of an idea

Quote from Exile

lmao what the fuck is azure talking about. he said veal is legally considered a dairy product and no one blinks an eye? all I can find to back this up:

"Because male calves will not grow up to produce milk, they are considered of little value to the dairy farmer and are sold for meat. Millions of these calves are taken away to be raised for beef. Hundreds of thousands of other male calves born into the dairy industry are raised for veal. Many people consider veal to be cruel, but they don’t realize that veal production is a product of the dairy industry."


just like how leather is a product of the beef industry. that doesn't equate to 'leather is legally beef' and it definitely doesn't make a leather burrito any better of an idea

It is a dairy product, technically speaking. The dairy industry has no room for all the male animals which don't produce milk, so many of the baby males are put in a solitary confinement for as big as they can get while maintaining the maximum tenderness. Which usually isn't that long. It's not like their cows don't have male offspring.
I would phrase it like this instead "Veal is a product of the diary industry" if I really wanted to be concise. I can see where the confusion is, seeing as how we often use the term "dairy product" to essentially describe anything with milk in it. Which veal is not milk, obviously. Though the calfs are commonly fed a dairy supplement.

Maybe Azure is saying that by vegetarians compromising their values "which in my opinion, would be blatantly untrue anyways" by consuming dairy products and eggs. Then couldn't they also justify consuming veal? I dunno.

I start from the supposition that vegetarians don't eat meat.

technically speaking, veal is meat and a dairy product is any product produced from milk from some mammal. zero overlap between these two things.

veal might be a byproduct of the cattle farming that's intrinsically linked to dairy production but when describing veal, the product itself, it is clearly meat. not dairy. so no, someone with a diet that specifically restricts meat probably shouldn't eat veal just because of the process which brings it into production

I mostly just thought the phrase 'veal is legally a dairy product' was absurd and surprised to see no one even questioned it. I hear bacon is legally kale, does that mean vegans should put it in their smoothies? this conversation is fucking bonkers

Exile wins.

Quote from Exile

technically speaking, veal is meat and a dairy product is any product produced from milk from some mammal. zero overlap between these two things.

veal might be a byproduct of the cattle farming that's intrinsically linked to dairy production but when describing veal, the product itself, it is clearly meat. not dairy. so no, someone with a diet that specifically restricts meat probably shouldn't eat veal just because of the process which brings it into production

I mostly just thought the phrase 'veal is legally a dairy product' was absurd and surprised to see no one even questioned it. I hear bacon is legally kale, does that mean vegans should put it in their smoothies? this conversation is fucking bonkers

Okay well I was high as a kite last night when this conversation started, but I'm still pretty sure his words are getting a little bit twisted here.

"legally speaking, veal is classified as a dairy product." Is what he said.

I'm not even sure most words in the culinary field really have LEGAL definition. Most of the food categories and shit are determined by pencil pushers of government agencies like the FDA. The same agencies that allowed American fast food to use uber cheap man made trans fat oils for too damn long.
I'm glad they've made colored charts listing foods to convince you of the definition they assign to the simple combining of two words "Dairy Product."
In a conversation all about how we define things, why can't you get past the fact that he worded one sentence sub-optimally?

I've also got to say, you can eat leather. If you're eating leather couldn't you then consider it a beef product, nutrition from the flesh of a cow? If you've ever been handed a bunch of bloody skin from a fresh slaughtered cow, you'd be hard pressed to say it isn't a beef product, it still has the stench and the warmth of the animal it comes from.

Veal comes primarily from the dairy industry, to call it a "dairy product" could easily just be a shorter way of saying "It's a product of the dairy industry." Just like an ovo-lacto vegetarian saying "I can eat dairy products" is just a shorter way of saying "I don't eat any meat, but do consume milk and eggs."

It's called brevity.

That said: http://milkfacts.info/Milk%20Processing/Standards%20of%20Identity.htm
I don't see veal among the standards of identity.

I'm sure if a lactose intolerant person ate veal on accident, they couldn't take it to the supreme court.

Quote from Arch-Angel

Exile wins a free blowjob from Arch.

Yes, let the butt hurt flow through you

Quote from Arch-Angel

Yes, let the butt hurt flow through you

Indeed, it is annoying when someone only chooses to weigh in once they think someone has already won.
Please go ahead and regail me with all about how the term "Dairy products" only means food containing milk.
Think about it, I mean really think about it.
Dairy product.

Dairy product

Dairy product

If you like so many others have failed to really pay attention this phrase and are yet to realize that there's more than one definition for the word "Dairy" then I must opine.

Dairy: Containing or made from milk.
Dairy: A building, room, or establishment for the storage, processing, and distribution of milk and milk products.

So it's so ridiculous, it's so outlandishly impossible, beyond the pale of human imagining? There can't be more than one definition of a term resulting from the combination of this word? We have to submit to stringent thinking?

Dairy product: A product made from or containing milk
Dairy product: A product from a fucking dairy.

Protip, if you don't know where veal comes from, it often comes from a fucking dairy.

It's all semantics though, I don't have any REAL point.

It is semantics, yes, but in the culinary field, it does matter to some extent. Mostly for nutrition purposes, and because part of our job is being able to describe everything we serve people. For example, while American is considered a cheese, by the standards of how cheese is produced and classified, it isn't actually cheese, but vheese product. And typically, because vegetarians are categorized into a spectrum based on what they eat, asking if they would eat a dairy product, be it meat or not by how one defines meat, is an interesting topic to me. For example, for some reason, while fish is treated as a meat, it isn't always categorized as one, which is how the pescatarian division of vegetarians exist. And yes, they're technically vegetarians.