I...haven't played SE in a while, at least not at the top competitive level. But from what I get:

This is spear wall (k) with archers, BACK (why, the spearton wall is there...) there's merics (k) with swordwrath....!?!??!? (they're in the same queue as spears!) and just...shadows (k)...

> Rushing is a legitimate strategy, and you lose to that...k?
> You lose in a long game, cause you're stuck on tier 2 units...k?

What I'm saying is, the strategy is overcomplicated and overlooks queue timers. I'd use sword/albow over this as a viable strategy.

Okay, let me clarify. This strategy clearly has some level of effectiveness, but in essence it's just a decorated and embellished spearcher, which loses against a solid comp of spear/archer, or end-game tech.

And shadowrath overall work better 1) end-game 2) not as a main unit 3) It's in the same. freaking. queue as sword and spears.

So yeah, that's a nay from me, sorry, but this strategy seems to work at a mid-level play (you 1800, 1850 or so?~).

Quote from DragonArcherZ

I...haven't played SE in a while, at least not at the top competitive level. But from what I get:

This is spear wall (k) with archers, BACK (why, the spearton wall is there...) there's merics (k) with swordwrath....!?!??!? (they're in the same queue as spears!) and just...shadows (k)...

> Rushing is a legitimate strategy, and you lose to that...k?
> You lose in a long game, cause you're stuck on tier 2 units...k?

What I'm saying is, the strategy is overcomplicated and overlooks queue timers. I'd use sword/albow over this as a viable strategy.

Okay, let me clarify. This strategy clearly has some level of effectiveness, but in essence it's just a decorated and embellished spearcher, which loses against a solid comp of spear/archer, or end-game tech.

And shadowrath overall work better 1) end-game 2) not as a main unit 3) It's in the same. freaking. queue as sword and spears.

So yeah, that's a nay from me, sorry, but this strategy seems to work at a mid-level play (you 1800, 1850 or so?~).

1) Archers are in back because they are an important unit to this strategy
2) Yeah so swordwrath are in the same queue as speartons, so what? They're cheap, high damaging...
3) Yes rushing is a legit strategy. I'm talking about how to defend against it.
4) Yes you are using tier 2 units. But you have greater numbers. The whole strategy is designed to play out with the long-game and outlast your opponent.
5) Yes this strategy is complicated. No i didnt overlook queue timers i said you need time to help set everything.
6) Core-wise yes this is a spearton-archer combo. If you use it in the way i described, it's much more.
7) No this can't really lose against a spearton-archer combo. I've tested it too many times.
8) Swords, ninjas and spears are all in the same queue. But they all have different weaknesses, strengths, etc. Queue doesnt matter.

Thanks for your opinion though. But I would still like it if you could at least try it out and send me a replay.

The main problem of why this wont work is that at high levels people need to continuously fight for position or they will be left behind in terms of economy and army. Few ever manage to get into a successful "turtle" against me, that is, holding a defensive position in your base with the help of walls and castle archers because frankly, the middle gives so much of an advantage that I can usually break turtles before they start. There are so many ways to do it too, making several archers and a spearton, buying fire arrows to essentially attrition war the enemy miners, rage rushing with swords, ect.

Another major flaw of this strategy is queues. It is simply completely inefficient to invest money and more importantly, time in swords when it is possible to buy spears. Fighting against the methods listed above, or against any enemy with a comparable eco to yours, time is a luxury you cant afford to spend on swords.

Exactly, while swords are very cost-efficient and high damaging, they have terrible efficiency for queue times. In a minute, you can queue 5 swords or 3 spears. I know which one I'd rather have on my side. Same with ninjas, while they're powerful units, their use is in taking out spellcasters and in hit-and-run attacks, NOT as a front-line unit. If you build swords and ninjas while your enemy is building spears, the damage you do will never make up for the extra health they gain from the speartons.

Do you even know the importance of queue times? Swords are only really good for early game when you don't have mana to get speartons. Like saintdane said, shadows aren't frontline units and if you're getting spears, swords, and shadows, you won't have enough of anything. It's just best to get swords and archers early game, tech up to spears and archers. And never forget merics and magikill. For late game get giants with merics and magikill.

Quote from EtherealAnomaly

4) Yes you are using tier 2 units. But you have greater numbers. The whole strategy is designed to play out with the long-game and outlast your opponent.

I don't think you can outlast them if they can consistently produce more things with higher DPS than you.

Quote from EtherealAnomaly

1) Archers are in back because they are an important unit to this strategy
2) Yeah so swordwrath are in the same queue as speartons, so what? They're cheap, high damaging...
3) Yes rushing is a legit strategy. I'm talking about how to defend against it.
4) Yes you are using tier 2 units. But you have greater numbers. The whole strategy is designed to play out with the long-game and outlast your opponent.
5) Yes this strategy is complicated. No i didnt overlook queue timers i said you need time to help set everything.
6) Core-wise yes this is a spearton-archer combo. If you use it in the way i described, it's much more.
7) No this can't really lose against a spearton-archer combo. I've tested it too many times.
8) Swords, ninjas and spears are all in the same queue. But they all have different weaknesses, strengths, etc. Queue doesnt matter.

Thanks for your opinion though. But I would still like it if you could at least try it out and send me a replay.

I'll rebut all the points for the sake of identifying your weak points in this strategy and how to improve it, but I'll start with the bottom line.

Thanks for your opinion though. But I would still like it if you could at least try it out and send me a replay.

Straight up, spear/archer is better. I don't have to test it to know this. I PM'd a reply to your message btw. A player doesn't have to try a strategy to prove it's ineffective, straight up.

1) Yes, archers should in general remain behind speartons. But you clearly stated "In order for this to be even more effective, stagger your archers a little bit away from the shield wall so your archers won't get damaged by enemy archers.". You keep your archers as *close* to your spears as possible on that shield wall, otherwise you lose range - their archers can hit your spears, you can't hit theirs, as well as losing the ability to forward kite and just kite because of the gap between your spears. And yes, archers are pretty damn important in most mid-game strategies.

2) So what? Queue efficiency, bro. You're wasting time. And time is a game's essence. Let me ask you like this. Why is SSSS not viable? If you have 4 swords, you can run down archers to base...except, it takes 48 seconds to make all of them. Queue times prevent that from being a viable start, just like having swords and spears in same queue (and 1 spear = 3 sword, so...) prevents it from being an efficient move.

3) If you're trying to counterrush using 3-4 swords..."you ded". Where are your archers? And no, you're not going to kill miners because the opponent should have a few swords and archers if you had 48 seconds to queue that many swords.

4) I know from experience that if you fall behind in the tech game, you lose. Simple as that. Let's put a basic scenario of you not teching. (Though this game would be ended if you tried to pull this off.) You have spears, archers, whatever the hell you have. I have Order Deathball (Giants, ninjas, albows, mage, merics). Straight up, you'll lose.

5) If you're behind in time, you're behind in the game. You won't get time to setup everything unless your opponent is stupid and goes "Alright, while I have spearchermeric, I'll chill out while this guy just happens to mass units and overlook queue times."

6) No, no it isn't. It's an overcomplicated and worse spear/archer, which is similar to a techswitch. Spear/archer mid-game, slowly transition with merics (for offensive), and a ninja (for key targets) - excluding the swords, which is stupid. Just trust me on this one. Use standard spear/archer and not this, it is *not* much more.

7) Do you want to bet on that?

8) Yes it does. You don't understand this yet because you clearly haven't been put under pressure by opponents before. Time is of the essence, and if you're queuing 3 units, you aren't being efficient and your opponent will have a larger army in the same timespan. That's what it all comes down to. I don't care if you have a spear, ninja and sword when I have 2 spears, 2 mages, 2 merics, 2 albows in the same timespan. (I know that's a horrible example, but still.)

---

Lastly, your whole strategy falls apart because it's meant to "outlast". Yet you can't "outlast" if you're behind the whole game in terms of "power" of units (DPS, HP, etc.)