*********************MINER WALL*********************

Edit 6: Adding this at top as very relevant; title and OP mentions miner wall but actually, proposed change includes Chaos turrets.

TL;DR BELOW

Before jumping on the fact that Order is heavily UP atm, remember that this is best solved by buffing units, not keeping the wall non-optimal.

With that said, here is a potential solution to make the miner wall more realistic and better:

( + Added benefit of solving the issue with Infernos)

We will start with the Inferno - Survive for one/two spells, slow, retreating out of the question; however, this is fine with me. Their potential to inflict game-winning damage near the wall is well worth the 850+100 for one/two spells.

The only problem is the wall. It isn't really possible to capitalize with CA beating down on us, mage+/archers+meric behind, enemy spears adding damage + blocking wall, not to mention having to take down wall.

With all of that said (+ tl;dr), the suggestion is to change Meteor Shower such that the wall burns as the units do. Given that the wall appears to be made of wood, this seemingly makes perfect sense.

***

Edit: Dragon call damages wall, making it even more appealing for Meteor Shower to do this as well and Inferno to be Eles counter to the wall (like Shadow for order).

Edit 2: Here is a video of the top 2 DM Ele mains discussing this:



Edit 3: As for balance; this will have a very minor effect in Classic. Inferno is a late-game unit; 1 Meteor Shower should not fully destroy wall as long as damage from coals does not stack.

In DM, it will weaken Order more than it already is. This is what the first sentence is addressing.

DM as I've been told, is "meant for noobs". From a developer perspective, to further limit Order potential in this mode if anything to increase paid members might be a good thing.

Edit 4: Made some slight revisions (i.e. removed some unnecessary wording).

Edit 5: To clarify as there might have been some misunderstanding, this is referring to the upgraded Meteor Shower spell only, where burning coals are left underneath the wooden wall.

I was bracing myself after the 'order heavily up' comment but this actually seems like quite a nice idea. It would certainly help ele break order turtles late game and thus incentivise order to play a little more aggressively.

Not sure how that would affect game coding, as walls have never had effects on it.

As for balance, I won't make a comment for now, but it doesn't appear to be too extreme.

This would be a nice change.
Infernoes doing dot to structures.
Let's see a dead poison a wall next.

Gee, that would be helpful pumu....

Please see "Edit 3" concerning balance.

How would this be considered balance for the order player. Order is already forced into a defensive position.

This will only benefit ele.

Quote from PUMU

How would this be considered balance for the order player. Order is already forced into a defensive position.

This will only benefit ele.

DM needs reworking anyway, and I think this change would improve classic.

Obviously ele needs more serious changes even in classic to improve the gameplay, but it would be a nice feature anyway.

Quote from PUMU

How would this be considered balance for the order player. Order is already forced into a defensive position.

This will only benefit ele.

No one is saying this will buff Order, please refer to where you are seeing this.

It adds depth and has a minimal effect on balance in Classic.

It makes Order slightly more UP in DM which is irrelevant as it is already unbalanced plus it will increase paid subscribers.

I think one main problem about dm is the result heavily relied on map size

elemental auto-win chaos in short , chaos auto-win order in short
all main issues resulted from short maps

In med maps all three empires are quite balanced

So to make it simple, eliminate all short maps in dm may be helpful

But to make it more interesting and remain balance at the same time, the whole game mode need reworking

Quote from PineappleReturnz

No one is saying this will buff Order, please refer to where you are seeing this.

It adds depth and has a minimal effect on balance in Classic.

It makes Order slightly more UP in DM which is irrelevant as it is already unbalanced plus it will increase paid subscribers.

lmfao how about we balance elementals before we go around screwing with something that works fine. Seriously, walls don't say "no elementals," it's how elementals are still fragile in firepower even after many combinations. And I'm not in favor of your last statements, that's just a bad joke that has little relevance. I think more players are interested in overall balance.

Quote from mysterybat

the whole game mode need reworking

chaos2stronk biblethump right?

Quote from WyzDM

chaos2stronk biblethump right?

No actually, order is too slow at getting set up in dm. If it was just chaos2stronk biblethump then OvE on short DM maps wouldn't also have issues.

Quote from Skeletonxf

No actually, order is too slow at getting set up in dm. If it was just chaos2stronk biblethump then OvE on short DM maps wouldn't also have issues.

Simple solution. All DMs need to be GH. Then Order has time.

More seriously, I could see seperate map pools working well. An in-between map for Med map and GH (GH is WAY bigger than medium map. Check wikis for relative numbers.) could work well for both classic and DM.

Quote from WyzDM

lmfao how about we balance elementals before we go around screwing with something that works fine. Seriously, walls don't say "no elementals," it's how elementals are still fragile in firepower even after many combinations. And I'm not in favor of your last statements, that's just a bad joke that has little relevance. I think more players are interested in overall balance.

I'm 100% in favor of this. The thread is about a slight buff to Ele.

The main issue with Ele is Cycloid, do you not agree? Give them Tornado at start and/or add another level with increased damage and speed.

Anyway, that is for a different thread.

Ok in classic order = chaos but in dm ele>chaos>order.