Is it me or am I getting the feeling that everyone's misinterpreting each other's points? Maybe because the portrayal doesn't jive well with each other. To me, Waffles aims to stop the influx of 'shitty, childish characters' by setting standards. But it doesn't seem to be working well, there has to be another way of putting this. Besides, to me, profiles look shitty only because of the formatting and lack of capitalization/punctuation. If a noob walked in and his profile is organized, punctuated and well-capitalized, it would be a while to realize that his character is a fruit-shooting donut-hunter powered by AAA batteries.

Anyways, Waffles is asleep at the moment. The exciting conclusion awaits when he wakes up. I'm really hooked (and partly worried) at the development this is taking.

Adding to GT's point:

I was the guy who fought Birtdog on that tournament. And you know what? He found a new weakness for Bl.An.C. that I had never listed at all and it made absolute sense that it worked. Using saintmccaw's stolen blood manipulation powers [Chance] he did this:

“Query: What did you do?”

“I’ve covered the materialization ports in your suit with blood.”
“Now watch. This is going to hurt both of us!”

This weakness, though never listed in my own page at the time, made my day. Its not that I just learned a new thing about my own character from another person but the excitement that there are stuff my own character has that I don't know yet that others may touch on. If you see some of my own battles, Waffles, I try to use the other character differently.

When I fought Xate back in the day [shit, this sentence], I used his aura powers in conjunction with his TM powers which he had never used prior. He told me he didn't think of it that way, told me that it shouldn't be possible [restrictions but was never posted] but he was glad.


Though I know what you mean when you require straight forward facts on weakness, strength and limitation but understand not everyone will know everything about their character. The feeling of discovery when another one does or you realize is what makes characters real.

My two cents.

Quote from Sacred

This right here already makes your entire post have questionable logic. You're trying to say that more explanation be put in a character synopsis page rather than in the story they're written into? AND that every little piece of ability your character has should be laid out for all eyes to see that way there are no surprises in the story? What kind of writing methods do you work with? If there's no surprise and you already know what you're gonna get, why read? Or write for that matter?

It's one thing to have a character, it's another to use it. And surprises? What? You can develop and do whatever you want with the char in the story, but the character page itself is a resource. Don't hide stuff for the sake of your own thing. If things CAN change and develop, then say. You may not be working from your char page, but your opponent certainly is, and they ought to have all the information they need. Need. There have been chars with powers that are made to develop over time, such as Devi's "Light". Before he changed it, he had powers written in white text to show that they had yet to be unlocked. And hell, you don't even need to do that. Just say that a power has "only begun" or something, to imply that it's not the full thing yet. I can say that a revolver fires four .45 calibre shots, but I can also say that it may get attachments in the future like a scope or a suppressor. That it's capable of doing so.

I'm not saying have every part of your character be specific to the point that you can't do anything more with them. I'm saying be specific where it's needed. You act like you can't have specificity without leeway. The reason I started this argument in the first place because your character's molecular manipulation ability didn't even have a rough idea of a speed limit or distance other than a short one. A friend once told me they'd do something a lot later, turned out to be half an hour. Another friend said they'd do something a little later, turned out to be days. These are situations where you should not be vague, and they are the ones I'm picking at.

Quote from Sacred

Another thing that's flawing your ability to actually debate this topic is your useless sense of sarcasm you're infringing on your posts. This condescending method of speaking will only lessen any sort of credibility I or another will lend to you in this discussion.

I'm an easily irritable British bloke. I've said before I have my reasons behind this, that I apologise for how I act and that I apologise because I will keep on acting like this.

Quote from Sacred

It's too easy for me to whip out the "Don't you know who I am..." card when it comes to wRHG here on Stickpage, so let me break it down for you. When I helped establish wRHG on this website, one of my main strides was to help those that want to make more out RHG then what was there. Create more than just x hits y. The way you present the story establishes your tone, skill level, complexity, and overall creativity. This is not meant to be shown by how complicated your character is or how well you develop your character's biography. This is shown by your ability to take whatever character you create as long as it follows the rules (which I established by the way) and put him/her up against whatever other fighter you're facing and then finding a way for your character to defeat them. This should not be so easily pinpointed in a character page, because guess what:

I don't really know who you are, I don't much care (sorry) and I don't care for the past either, since I wasn't around then. Immune to the rose tinted glasses. But that's not the point here. I'd like to focus on the now. Sure, I believe that you were one of those who made the section what it is now, but as I said, stuff evolves.

Yes, wRHG is a way to put more in than RHG, but I'm not saying you have to pack a ton into your character. I'm saying a few more words here and there or weording a few sentences can help others when it comes to using your page as the resource it is. You needn't pour a ton into personality, you needn't overexplain the powers or weaknesses, just be concise. Leave the personal touches to the demo, and to the inevitable links of all the battles you will have.

Quote from Sacred

Say there's a character who has two weaknesses on their bio. Fire makes them melt and breathing in propane instantly shuts down their lungs. If wRHG worked the way you're proposing, guess how every single writer will make their gladiator win. Fire, or propane. Surprise! And that will happen every single time. No new methods, no new discoveries, no expanded creativity to encapsulate victory. Just the same old same old. Personally, I'm starting to feel that your over-neediness for making sure that the enemy in your story is completely laid out for you begs the question of how much you're really willing to write on your own.

Like every other character in RHG is fast with a sword and electricity. wRHG is more varied, thank fuck. And you're taking my point on weaknesses wrong.

The abilities of a character states the upsides they have, the ones that make them different and viable for battle. The weaknesses of a character states the downsides they have, the ones that rise up through their uniqueness, but it's also to state the shortcomings of their abilities. If you gave a char the ability to have X-ray vision from special goggles, but gave them the weakness of them being able to be pimp-slapped off, I assume that- even though it's not mentioned- they'd still die from a bullet to the temple. Stating a few weaknesses do not mean that they are immune to every other thing ever. The weaknesses/limits should be unique things.

And your fire and propane thing is silly because you imply that a person would build thier character directly around another one's weaknesses. When two characters with seperate weaknesses pop up, will everyone go "omg we best update ours with more powers"?

People ought to strive for individuality with their characters. If one decided to base theirs around beating one other character, then they're only planning to only have one battle, and that sort of shortsightedness means they're someone I'm not going to bother with at all. I could loop back to my "defined leeway" point but the fact that you assume that by having a concise and defined character resource sheet, everyone automatically turns into a little shit. The weaknesses section are all about the character's unique weaknesses, to go alongside the section about the character's unique strengths.

Quote from Sacred

If you're not smart enough to realize that the hammer you're wielding isn't capable of making a cabinet, you probably shouldn't be wielding a hammer.

Surely it is the user's knowledge that lets them craft a cabinet, and the tool is but the medium in which they do so? One may be able to craft intricrate and awe-inspiring cabinets, but with a floppy hammer, that is not possible. They may even decide to make a chair instead! Or drawers! A table? A bed. But a floppy hammer limits them greatly and only grants frustration.

Confucious say: man who run in front of car, get tyred. Man who run behind car, get exhausted. (Sorry, unrelated joke.)

Quote from Sacred

Bottom line, it's not up to you to decide what standards should be set when someone puts together a character. I set the base rules, but left the interpretation open because that's the point. If you don't feel comfortable enough taking on someone's wRHG, then don't take them on. Let the community and those in charge of this piece of Stickpage decide whether or not what I'm doing is write or wrong. (Sad attempt at a joke, sorry.)

Lower dash, I'm not defining standards here. I, am in no way, aiming to get this thread to be a holy bible of characters, I don't want this to get stickied up nor do I want people to thump this to others as if I am the way.

This thread was started to show off how I think things could be done, my way of creating a creativity-inspiring character, and possibly fixing a few pet peeves of mine that have somehow found themselves so engraved into this society that people think of them as norms. And hot damn I will debate and argue until people understand me. They don't have to agree with me. I'd like it if they did, but understanding is enough. Of course I'd be happy if people took my advice, but It's enough for them to just acknowledge it. There's a saying I heard once before. "Fools think their own way is right, but the wise listen to others." I may be a fool here, damn knows I feel like one from time to time, but I'm wanting to improve my views as much as I'm wanting you to understand them.

I honestly thought my standards weren't high. But I'm starting to think otherwise. Sorta depresses me.

Well it's pretty clear where this discussion stands:

You - Put more explanation and elaboration on weakness/ability so that others may have more to work with.
Me (and a few others) - Leaving vagueness upon a character's description leaves more room for others to interpret newfound ways to deal with their foe.

These are not arguments but preferences. And we simply don't agree with each other's preferences. So we should leave this as I said we should in my previous post: Leave it up to the community and the ones in charge. And if you feel that my character, or any other character, does not have the specifics that you require to battle him, don't battle him. Simple as that. And if people agree with your methods, they'll create their characters the way you suggest. And the ones that agree with my methods will create with the ways I've suggested.

Also one more thing: Nothing has evolved. Things haven't changed. I'm looking around and the tenacity of wRHG and the ways people go about it are the same as before. And just because you regularly wRHG currently, and I did practically 2 years ago, does not mean that I'm some old soul returning to a different world and just don't get it. You said that this is meant to be your opinions, yet you speak as if you're representing so many others when I can clearly see others posting in here disagreeing with you. And if you want to pridefully continue being the downward-looking, riddle-attempting discusser that you are, then good luck getting those arguments that you'll never give up on to be accepted. It seems that you're not willing to accept new changes to yourself just like you prefer no new changes to the wRHGs you prefer to face. And once again, it's nothing but a preference.

I hope that any outsiders viewing this discussion can take away some good points and allow themselves to form their own opinions and ways of going about wRHG. Just as I'll go about my own ways, too.

Alright. We've debated, I've heard your thoughts, you've heard mine. I respect & understand your decision and wish you luck and fun with it. I shan't badger you about such things any more, (unless a new topic arises~?)

now where'd hewwy go, get that smarmy bugger back 'ere fer more walls of text. this whole thing is pretty damn fun actually

What do you want from me, man. I'm just a man with an opinion. Now you have 5 in total to deal with.

You have 4 other people who have decided to open a dialogue with you and you're ignoring them with your overcompensated perceived witty humor and *ahem* British snark. You know, you keep saying that's just how you are. But in an international open forum setting, that means shit. A snarky critic like me never gets personal unless I inadvertently struck a nerve by accident. What's stopping me from going full Tsar Bomba is my professionalism in handling serious discussion. And everyone else has also kept their decorum and demeanor to a moderate minimum. So really, just because we're choosing to hold our punches back doesn't mean you don't have to just to be edgy. There's a time and place for everything.

I didn't start a debate with you because I wanted to take you on solo; I was inciting a discussion between open members of the sub-community just as how roBEAT, Sacred, GT, and Error have done because you were getting nobody but Yesmen when you started this thread even though the silent Majority vastly disagrees with you. That silence may have bloated your ego further to falsely believing that your words are gospel. But when you apply that gospel to something that affects us, of course we'll have to step in. My points are the same as Sacred's of which you have dismissed time and time again; you have strong opinions as to what makes or breaks a wRHG and you are allowed to have those points.

However.

We are not asking you to convert. We only ask is that you do not act like the game has changed and you are its leading innovator. Do not act like you know where we've been and how we got to this point and make conclusions about it. Do not act like your mantra is law and should be the norm for making characters and writing well. Me, Sacred, and the other debaters are disagreeing with you not because we wish to dissuade newcomers like Cassandra and Malacal into following your advice. But because we want to let them know that your way is only one of the many ways, even if in our opinion your way is just bullshit.