SP Mafia VII: Avengers, Disassembled! | GAME OVER: Congratulations to the Skrull!
Started by: Hewitt | Replies: 744 | Views: 69,560
Dec 15, 2015 3:13 PM #1423112
PMing is not the same thing because townies still have to talk tactics, or in our case, message captain America. He's banning irc and Skype because the discussion should be held in this thread for many reasons.
Dec 15, 2015 3:35 PM #1423119
Yeah, I agree with that. I was caught off guard when people had an entire discussion about my death on skype and decided my lynch and pretty much only gave me an extremely small window to actually respond.
I'm actually really salty because of how badly I played this time. If there's another round in the future, consider me booked.
I'm actually really salty because of how badly I played this time. If there's another round in the future, consider me booked.
Dec 15, 2015 11:46 PM #1423173
I need tips on how to better perform! And better yet, sign me up! I won't be helpless!
Dec 16, 2015 2:36 AM #1423190
Okay Post-Rant time!
tl;dr all Townies read the 2nd paragraph (What is up with paranoia...) because I am tired of reiterating this shit every game. Every game Exilement seems to say that it just doesn't work because a sure-lynch will only be effective if enough proof is given. Well, guess what, no proof was given at all and the Mafia were able to stomp you easily.
==========================================================
We already have a textbook example on how to be Town (Smile), or Serial Killer (Exilement), but this is the first time that the Mafia were all collectively, independently, effective it's almost scary. Future Mafia players take notes; this is how you fuck up a town. I was expecting Youwishjellyfish to pull the slack, but the surprisingly green Envoy and the initially reluctant Devour managed to strut their stuff pretty well. My favorite part was when they seemingly began suspecting each other, as what any organic townie would do. Also bonus points to Devour acting completely natural in defending himself when put in the hotseat, compared to Apex and devi's less-than-stellar moment under pressure. We'll talk more about them later. In short, the Mafia was able to act more like Town than Town could ever do.
What is up with paranoia being so bad around here? We've been playing 7 games already and you guys still don't get it. Just because the finger of suspicion is on you, doesn't mean the game is over. Moreover, just because you have a strong leader doesn't mean you can sit back and relax and let the adults handle it. It is as Mantha says: You signed up for this game to suspect people. Don't be afraid to shake some trees and ruffle a few feathers and don't be offended when your own feathers are being ruffled. They're scrutinizing you because they care enough not to lose people. What do you do? You scrutinize them back. Don't shrink into the goddamn loser's bench. In between all the in-fighting, you're both bound to realize that you both want the common good and maybe just maybe, you'll see that guy who's just eating popcorn in the corner and figure "Hey why are you so smug about this"?
For this post-game, it is as Devour says; the town is going to play the blame game now that several fuck-ups have become apparent, but no one can deny that the Mafia shined in this game. Although, I would argue that most of the members in Town did a pretty decent job. I disagree with Nish on his suppositions that a lot of townies fucked it up. I think everybody did a great job, just not great enough. Like, everyone did exactly 50% of what it took, but either didn't follow through or fucked it up.
Mantha was the MVP of the town. Glad to have her on board as a new player. Sure, she lynched the wrong guy. But if the whole town was as critical as her, she wouldn't have stood out as a sore critical thumb. You're supposed to be this inquisitive, this pokey, to try and get a reaction. That's what the #Unvote command is for, to take things you don't mean back. I hope this game teaches people that you can't just bandwagon and if your gut says it stinks, you should follow it through. The more critical and genuine Townies are against each other, the more obvious it would be for Mafia to pretend to be critical and genuine.
Zero was great for the most part. His suspicions were as critical as Manthas. His problem is that he greatly misused his powers. His first move was to waste the Shield on Exilement. I'll talk more about Exilement later, but the act of giving the Innocent Role a shield is redundant in itself. I've already given lots of reasons why Mafia will be reluctant to kill the Innocent early game. Zero, like most of the townies, were being really conservative in their motives. This gave the Mafia time to get their shit together and sow the seeds of discord. Zero also had a misunderstanding of the Items he was given. The Isolation Pod for one, could've been given to someone early game that was suspected of being Mafia. It's use, partnered with the Death of the Night could confirm that that someone was in fact NOT a Mafia. But no, Zero chose to shield the least likely to die AND hold out on using his helpful tools.
Ditto with Boomerang who's biggest mistake was not announcing his motives, but not using it sooner. What is the point of knowing allegiance late game as opposed to early game. He should've just used it N1 or N2 and if it was Maf/Loki then GOOD thats an instant +1 for the town. But if it was Town then at least it was GUARANTEED TOWN. So it was a win-win to bolster Townie's allegiances.
And speaking of helpful tools, Nish was moderately boring for this iteration. I already discussed it with him on fb: jumping to Cap was the safest option he could make whether or not he was shielded at least in the early game. I'm not going to expand on this much since he didn't die. He was just lucky that Mafia didn't even target him at all, because I suppose that they were frankly afraid of the user more than the role, but to hide to nobody every night? It was a waste, and the focus on not getting killed detracted so much that he was barely able to focus on figuring out who the bad guys were.
Xate did great. People will say he was an annoyance but his only flaw was that he just kept what he did to himself. Sure, his Raging might have had a 1/10 chance of success, but when that first Night revealed no results he should've trusted his gut and said something. He should've also read the moves and figured that they were going to converge on Squidd (Apex did). Saving Squidd was a big +1 for the town but nobody did shit on D2 and as a result, what would appear to be genuinely heroic efforts from Xate became a perceived waste from a useless and annoying role.
I know devi basically shrunk on the last day, but he has been as tryhard as any newbie to this game has and probably didn't know that just because you're being lynched doesn't mean its over. devi should've taken notes on who bandwagonned against him for the flimsiest of reasons. Why do you think do I update the votes every now and then; it is so people can see the order in which people voted for someone. He was also very cautious being a doublevoter and didn't abuse it, and at one time, his reluctance put the pressure on Devour who was on the verge of being lynched. You may have inadverdently did this, but you did it. Learn from it.
Apex and Raptor imo were the biggest offenders. Why? Because when I first posted that I was prodding inactives on Day Two, these two said they weren't being inactive at all, but that they chose to be inactive because they're observing things as they go. First, I have a rule specifically against lurking so no, you cannot do that. Second, being inactively active is clear bait for being Mafia in the first place! Apex and Raptor became prime targets for Mantha and Exilement the moment they left the radar and when they did their supposedly suspicious thing (saving the wrong guy and acting defensive respectively), that put the nail in the coffin for being dead on Mafia, which of course the real Mafia exploited. It's a shame because Apex actually managed to telegraph D1 and save Squidd. Had he come in to reveal this, even if it was done out of luck, he could've at least made his towniness more credible.
Raptor on the other hand didn't do a single thing every night. I was seriously facepalming here because YJW kept bolting him every Night and for good reasons. And I recall Mantha tracking YWJ at least once and YWJ almost being in the hotseat for that. Had Raptor tried to use his ability every night, he would've noticed that he was getting cockblocked every night and that would've helped greatly with fingering YWJ out. Raptor and Apex pulled a cardinal sin in Mafia, don't be a lurker. It just dead on makes you even more suspicious and will bite you back in the ass later.
Finally we come to Exilement. I'm not going to talk about how 'inactive' he was in this game. But rather, the analysis of his role and the effects he's had on the town. Me, Smile, and Arch-Angel kind of agreed on this observation as the game was happening: that the town was Paralyzed because Exilement was Captain America. What was going to be a ridiculously hard opponent for YWJ became a doubled-edged poisoned sword for the town in turn. Remember, Exile was the first to draft and he chose Cap first. The idea was that he was going to figure it all out based on who did what. This. In turn, set the stage for the town's downfall.
The immediate reliance on Exile's "Wisdom", transformed his meta-role from Born Leader to Brain-in-a-jar. From Day 1 to Day 2 (before I instantiated the auto-lynch rule), the Town slowed to a crawl. What was really annoying was that Apex and Xate just saved a life and NOBODY pointed this out or tried to work with it. The Town had a lead but NOOO, we have to wait for what Exilement has to say. My chats with the Mafia from D1 to D2 had them almost in a panic. Unfortunately for the town, nobody took advantage of this because of 'lack of information' (of which I reiterate to PLS READ PARAGRAPH TWO). Nevermind that his inactivity would eventually be noticeable, even if he was active everyone was essentially being Sheep until Mantha decided to take the reins. The only other people to take the initiative were guess what: The Mafia. And only when they decided to control the town did Zero, Raptor, and Nish emerge from the woodwork but by that point it was too late.
Note for the above that I mean that it was too late for Exilement to be of any legit help, not too late for the town. Every phase of the game was ridiculously dead even for both parties. The Mafia were really anxious and tasked with convincing everyone to lynch the wrong people thrice in a row AND potentially avoid not killing anyone at Night. It was still dead even but since the Town never got their shit together, they felt that it became a one-sided game. Guys, it wasn't. Even on the last day when devi was on trial, it was still dead even. But when I saw Exilement basically give up, I said fuck it too. The Mafia must be really damn effective to have had such an amazing effect on psychologically debilitating the town's ability to function.
Once again, READ PARAGRAPH TWO. And I will see (most of) you all in the next Round.
Just want to address the Skype fiasco again; if it were me and I could control it, I would've banned Skype use, but I can't so I can only ask you via the honor system; please use this thread and nowhere else to discuss your shit. That's the last time I'll say anything about it.
Finally, as to the commentary on newbs messing it up for the town, I see nothing wrong with that. Apex and Xate and Raptor will learn. Squidd and devi too. Envoy and Devour sure did. If we kept rejecting every noob to come to these games, we wouldn't last a long time as our playerbase dwindles. So live and learn, and share a wisdom or two. Then keep playing.
Also for Lamitrov, you played okay. But next time, TELL ME if you're not going to be able to play. Your forced inactivity almost cost me the game.
tl;dr all Townies read the 2nd paragraph (What is up with paranoia...) because I am tired of reiterating this shit every game. Every game Exilement seems to say that it just doesn't work because a sure-lynch will only be effective if enough proof is given. Well, guess what, no proof was given at all and the Mafia were able to stomp you easily.
==========================================================
We already have a textbook example on how to be Town (Smile), or Serial Killer (Exilement), but this is the first time that the Mafia were all collectively, independently, effective it's almost scary. Future Mafia players take notes; this is how you fuck up a town. I was expecting Youwishjellyfish to pull the slack, but the surprisingly green Envoy and the initially reluctant Devour managed to strut their stuff pretty well. My favorite part was when they seemingly began suspecting each other, as what any organic townie would do. Also bonus points to Devour acting completely natural in defending himself when put in the hotseat, compared to Apex and devi's less-than-stellar moment under pressure. We'll talk more about them later. In short, the Mafia was able to act more like Town than Town could ever do.
What is up with paranoia being so bad around here? We've been playing 7 games already and you guys still don't get it. Just because the finger of suspicion is on you, doesn't mean the game is over. Moreover, just because you have a strong leader doesn't mean you can sit back and relax and let the adults handle it. It is as Mantha says: You signed up for this game to suspect people. Don't be afraid to shake some trees and ruffle a few feathers and don't be offended when your own feathers are being ruffled. They're scrutinizing you because they care enough not to lose people. What do you do? You scrutinize them back. Don't shrink into the goddamn loser's bench. In between all the in-fighting, you're both bound to realize that you both want the common good and maybe just maybe, you'll see that guy who's just eating popcorn in the corner and figure "Hey why are you so smug about this"?
For this post-game, it is as Devour says; the town is going to play the blame game now that several fuck-ups have become apparent, but no one can deny that the Mafia shined in this game. Although, I would argue that most of the members in Town did a pretty decent job. I disagree with Nish on his suppositions that a lot of townies fucked it up. I think everybody did a great job, just not great enough. Like, everyone did exactly 50% of what it took, but either didn't follow through or fucked it up.
Mantha was the MVP of the town. Glad to have her on board as a new player. Sure, she lynched the wrong guy. But if the whole town was as critical as her, she wouldn't have stood out as a sore critical thumb. You're supposed to be this inquisitive, this pokey, to try and get a reaction. That's what the #Unvote command is for, to take things you don't mean back. I hope this game teaches people that you can't just bandwagon and if your gut says it stinks, you should follow it through. The more critical and genuine Townies are against each other, the more obvious it would be for Mafia to pretend to be critical and genuine.
Zero was great for the most part. His suspicions were as critical as Manthas. His problem is that he greatly misused his powers. His first move was to waste the Shield on Exilement. I'll talk more about Exilement later, but the act of giving the Innocent Role a shield is redundant in itself. I've already given lots of reasons why Mafia will be reluctant to kill the Innocent early game. Zero, like most of the townies, were being really conservative in their motives. This gave the Mafia time to get their shit together and sow the seeds of discord. Zero also had a misunderstanding of the Items he was given. The Isolation Pod for one, could've been given to someone early game that was suspected of being Mafia. It's use, partnered with the Death of the Night could confirm that that someone was in fact NOT a Mafia. But no, Zero chose to shield the least likely to die AND hold out on using his helpful tools.
Ditto with Boomerang who's biggest mistake was not announcing his motives, but not using it sooner. What is the point of knowing allegiance late game as opposed to early game. He should've just used it N1 or N2 and if it was Maf/Loki then GOOD thats an instant +1 for the town. But if it was Town then at least it was GUARANTEED TOWN. So it was a win-win to bolster Townie's allegiances.
And speaking of helpful tools, Nish was moderately boring for this iteration. I already discussed it with him on fb: jumping to Cap was the safest option he could make whether or not he was shielded at least in the early game. I'm not going to expand on this much since he didn't die. He was just lucky that Mafia didn't even target him at all, because I suppose that they were frankly afraid of the user more than the role, but to hide to nobody every night? It was a waste, and the focus on not getting killed detracted so much that he was barely able to focus on figuring out who the bad guys were.
Xate did great. People will say he was an annoyance but his only flaw was that he just kept what he did to himself. Sure, his Raging might have had a 1/10 chance of success, but when that first Night revealed no results he should've trusted his gut and said something. He should've also read the moves and figured that they were going to converge on Squidd (Apex did). Saving Squidd was a big +1 for the town but nobody did shit on D2 and as a result, what would appear to be genuinely heroic efforts from Xate became a perceived waste from a useless and annoying role.
I know devi basically shrunk on the last day, but he has been as tryhard as any newbie to this game has and probably didn't know that just because you're being lynched doesn't mean its over. devi should've taken notes on who bandwagonned against him for the flimsiest of reasons. Why do you think do I update the votes every now and then; it is so people can see the order in which people voted for someone. He was also very cautious being a doublevoter and didn't abuse it, and at one time, his reluctance put the pressure on Devour who was on the verge of being lynched. You may have inadverdently did this, but you did it. Learn from it.
Apex and Raptor imo were the biggest offenders. Why? Because when I first posted that I was prodding inactives on Day Two, these two said they weren't being inactive at all, but that they chose to be inactive because they're observing things as they go. First, I have a rule specifically against lurking so no, you cannot do that. Second, being inactively active is clear bait for being Mafia in the first place! Apex and Raptor became prime targets for Mantha and Exilement the moment they left the radar and when they did their supposedly suspicious thing (saving the wrong guy and acting defensive respectively), that put the nail in the coffin for being dead on Mafia, which of course the real Mafia exploited. It's a shame because Apex actually managed to telegraph D1 and save Squidd. Had he come in to reveal this, even if it was done out of luck, he could've at least made his towniness more credible.
Raptor on the other hand didn't do a single thing every night. I was seriously facepalming here because YJW kept bolting him every Night and for good reasons. And I recall Mantha tracking YWJ at least once and YWJ almost being in the hotseat for that. Had Raptor tried to use his ability every night, he would've noticed that he was getting cockblocked every night and that would've helped greatly with fingering YWJ out. Raptor and Apex pulled a cardinal sin in Mafia, don't be a lurker. It just dead on makes you even more suspicious and will bite you back in the ass later.
Finally we come to Exilement. I'm not going to talk about how 'inactive' he was in this game. But rather, the analysis of his role and the effects he's had on the town. Me, Smile, and Arch-Angel kind of agreed on this observation as the game was happening: that the town was Paralyzed because Exilement was Captain America. What was going to be a ridiculously hard opponent for YWJ became a doubled-edged poisoned sword for the town in turn. Remember, Exile was the first to draft and he chose Cap first. The idea was that he was going to figure it all out based on who did what. This. In turn, set the stage for the town's downfall.
The immediate reliance on Exile's "Wisdom", transformed his meta-role from Born Leader to Brain-in-a-jar. From Day 1 to Day 2 (before I instantiated the auto-lynch rule), the Town slowed to a crawl. What was really annoying was that Apex and Xate just saved a life and NOBODY pointed this out or tried to work with it. The Town had a lead but NOOO, we have to wait for what Exilement has to say. My chats with the Mafia from D1 to D2 had them almost in a panic. Unfortunately for the town, nobody took advantage of this because of 'lack of information' (of which I reiterate to PLS READ PARAGRAPH TWO). Nevermind that his inactivity would eventually be noticeable, even if he was active everyone was essentially being Sheep until Mantha decided to take the reins. The only other people to take the initiative were guess what: The Mafia. And only when they decided to control the town did Zero, Raptor, and Nish emerge from the woodwork but by that point it was too late.
Note for the above that I mean that it was too late for Exilement to be of any legit help, not too late for the town. Every phase of the game was ridiculously dead even for both parties. The Mafia were really anxious and tasked with convincing everyone to lynch the wrong people thrice in a row AND potentially avoid not killing anyone at Night. It was still dead even but since the Town never got their shit together, they felt that it became a one-sided game. Guys, it wasn't. Even on the last day when devi was on trial, it was still dead even. But when I saw Exilement basically give up, I said fuck it too. The Mafia must be really damn effective to have had such an amazing effect on psychologically debilitating the town's ability to function.
Once again, READ PARAGRAPH TWO. And I will see (most of) you all in the next Round.
Just want to address the Skype fiasco again; if it were me and I could control it, I would've banned Skype use, but I can't so I can only ask you via the honor system; please use this thread and nowhere else to discuss your shit. That's the last time I'll say anything about it.
Finally, as to the commentary on newbs messing it up for the town, I see nothing wrong with that. Apex and Xate and Raptor will learn. Squidd and devi too. Envoy and Devour sure did. If we kept rejecting every noob to come to these games, we wouldn't last a long time as our playerbase dwindles. So live and learn, and share a wisdom or two. Then keep playing.
Also for Lamitrov, you played okay. But next time, TELL ME if you're not going to be able to play. Your forced inactivity almost cost me the game.
Dec 16, 2015 3:26 AM #1423202
Ready for R2.
Dec 16, 2015 3:32 AM #1423203
Quote from Hewitt
Raptor on the other hand didn't do a single thing every night. I was seriously facepalming here because YJW kept bolting him every Night and for good reasons. And I recall Mantha tracking YWJ at least once and YWJ almost being in the hotseat for that. Had Raptor tried to use his ability every night, he would've noticed that he was getting cockblocked every night and that would've helped greatly with fingering YWJ out.
This is really the only thing I could object to. Since Day 1, the Town had come up with a plan to have Exile direct who to do what. If I wasn't given any directions on what to do, I also couldn't just choose to go rogue and expect it to work out since that would only further screw things up if I read the situation incorrectly, and it would only hurt me further if I was investigated in the same night. It ended up biting me in the ass because YWJ was blocking me every night, but in the first two days I was stuck unable to move and before I was really able to object to the overall plan (since nothing was getting done via night actions) by N3 I died. I understand that Falcon is a dangerous ability, but it's also risky too, and the combination of lack of information and little time (only two days) deterred me from actually taking action until it was too late. Obviously in this scenario because of YWJ doing something would've helped, but I don't understand how it should've been objectively obvious that I should have acted in both N1 and N2 if there were plenty of potential risks.
Otherwise you were spot on and I fucked up everything else. I'm sort of surprised you didn't hark on the other things I did wrong, but I don't mind lmao
Dec 16, 2015 3:33 AM #1423204
Now that I won as Thor, do I get to make out with Natalie Portman?
Dec 16, 2015 5:00 AM #1423217
Raptor if I harked on everything everyone did, we'd be here all day. I'm not the goddamn preacher on Mafia, I just commentate and call it as I see it. If you can spot things you did wrong, then you're good. If you shared it even better, that way everyone will know and add knowledge on being town.
And as to the riskiness of the role, yeah I agree that Falcon could ruin it for people, but it's better than coming up with nothing all the time. If something happened because you redirected a kill for example, you can narrow down the culprit to 2 people. But by doing nothing, you've stymied your own attempts at evidence finding. Why would you even need to redirect a kill if you knew who the killer was? You'd lynch him in the Day anyway. So Redirecting should be used as an investigative tool, not a defensive one.
Also saying this right now: If you are planning to join Veir's RP and you become inactive in Round 2 I will blacklist you. You signed up for a an exercise in words and I expect you to give 100% to both efforts.
And as to the riskiness of the role, yeah I agree that Falcon could ruin it for people, but it's better than coming up with nothing all the time. If something happened because you redirected a kill for example, you can narrow down the culprit to 2 people. But by doing nothing, you've stymied your own attempts at evidence finding. Why would you even need to redirect a kill if you knew who the killer was? You'd lynch him in the Day anyway. So Redirecting should be used as an investigative tool, not a defensive one.
Also saying this right now: If you are planning to join Veir's RP and you become inactive in Round 2 I will blacklist you. You signed up for a an exercise in words and I expect you to give 100% to both efforts.
Dec 16, 2015 5:08 AM #1423218
Quote from Hewitt
Also saying this right now: If you are planning to join Veir's RP and you become inactive in Round 2 I will blacklist you. You signed up for a an exercise in words and I expect you to give 100% to both efforts.
Yes, sir.
Dec 16, 2015 6:11 AM #1423226
I think in hindsight it is easy to see there was an over-reliance on Exilement's role. But I can't see how this wouldn't happen since this is the first ever Mafia game where there is one PROVEN innocent, and he also happens to be historically the best player among us, so of course we would flock to him, especially if you're an easy target to get framed, you need to prove your towniness buy declaring allegiance early on. Either way, lesson learnt.
Dec 16, 2015 6:37 AM #1423230
The new thread is up: http://forums.stickpage.com/showthread.php?98149-SP-Mafia-VIIb-Avengers-Disassembled!-Signups-Open!
Please be sure to read ALL the roles; alot of them have changed!
I'll leave this thread open for post-game discussion though.
Please be sure to read ALL the roles; alot of them have changed!
I'll leave this thread open for post-game discussion though.
Dec 16, 2015 7:22 AM #1423240
I had to make up for my own blunders SOMEHOW. Thanks for keeping me.
Dec 16, 2015 2:12 PM #1423269
nah Nish we've done this once before with me playing the confirmed townie role. I just struggled throughout this game, I didn't realize the skrull could use their abilities and my plans fell through, I couldn't piece together any sort of puzzle based on who was doing what and a collective team strategy never materialized.
I'm on mobile but hewitt said "The Mafia must be really damn effective to have had such an amazing effect on psychologically debilitating the town's ability to function". Apex gets the credit for that one, not the mafia.
I'm on mobile but hewitt said "The Mafia must be really damn effective to have had such an amazing effect on psychologically debilitating the town's ability to function". Apex gets the credit for that one, not the mafia.
Dec 16, 2015 2:31 PM #1423275
Lol I had no clue we've even had a confirmed Townie game, or that people didn't flock to the confirmed townie to sort things out. Some link me.
Dec 16, 2015 2:50 PM #1423276
Quote from Not_NishLol I had no clue we've even had a confirmed Townie game, or that people didn't flock to the confirmed townie to sort things out. Some link me.
I'm not sure but I think that was game #2 which is apparently lost forever.