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What does racial inequality cost us?

Started by: Tun3 | Replies: 16 | Views: 2,000

Tun3
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Nov 14, 2015 1:05 AM #1415704
This isnt exactly aimed at society but more about the economy and employment.
Is racial inequality good or bad for the economy?

One of America's greatest problems is racism. From the 9/11 attack, to the election of Obama, to Unauthorized Immigrants-
Racial inequality has and will continue,forever, to affect the U.S. economically, politically, and culturally.

For example, racial inequality can affect children of minorities from getting the educational opportunities they deserve.

However, why does race and ethnicity affect how and where we get our jobs? How does this issue affect what college or career we can or want to get in to?

If racial inequality did not existor if it continued to exist would the U.S. economy improve from its current state, gradually fall apart, or will it stay the same?
MasterKaito
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Nov 14, 2015 3:11 AM #1415714
Improve. There are so many fucking dumbasses due to racial inequality. It's been rooted in American history since the very beginning - The native americans, the african americans, the chinese, the spanish, the middle eastern, etc
Person McPerson

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Nov 14, 2015 4:34 AM #1415725
I've read somewhere in a book that 1/4 blacks go to jail at some point in their lives in USA. (could be true, could be false, I really don't know) So it will definitely improve. Not to be mean or anything, but most people connect blacks with violence or drugs or something.
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Nov 14, 2015 7:01 AM #1415761
Is anyone going to actually argue that racial inequality is good for an economy? Because otherwise, this isn't going to be a debate.
Externus
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Nov 14, 2015 9:47 AM #1415772
Quote from Person McPerson
I've read somewhere in a book that 1/4 blacks go to jail at some point in their lives in USA. (could be true, could be false, I really don't know) So it will definitely improve. Not to be mean or anything, but most people connect blacks with violence or drugs or something.


Then again, blacks commit about 30% of all crime in the US despite only being about 16% of the population. Most of the white crime in the country comes from the fact that Latinos are categorized with Whites. Only thing that Caucasian whites lead in prominently without Hispanic Whites is forcible rape. When talking about racial inequality, there's more involved than just should we get rid of it? In a perfect world where everyone was equally malevolent and equally benevolent, it's a clear answer of yes. But it doesn't sit right with me to say minorities are victimized constantly. When looking at statistics, like looking at states with higher poverty rates vs crime rates, you see states like West Virginia with staggering poverty rates, incredibly high white population, yet low crime rates.
I'm not saying being black makes you a criminal, but I'm making an argument that I don't agree with "black culture." We all know what I mean by "black culture," and it has nothing to do with skin color or race. It upsets me to see hundreds of thousands upon hundreds of thousands neglect the free education they receive and then complain about being victimized. There's definitely escape from the tyranny of poverty, and it's not through sagging your pants and being "cool." I don't wan to support the ideal of excusing the people who do voluntarily throw away their life and pretend they never had a choice. Everyone should do their part. It's just as wrong for people to play victim and act as if all their problems are the result of societal abuse as it is to refuse to hire someone because their name sounds black.
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Nov 14, 2015 11:17 PM #1415885
Quote from Externus
Then again, blacks commit about 30% of all crime in the US despite only being about 16% of the population.


Do you think this is a cause or a symptom?
Externus
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Nov 15, 2015 4:54 AM #1415917
Quote from Unbounded
Do you think this is a cause or a symptom?


Might be a little of both. Not a cause of being black, but letting yourself give into that rowdy, uneducated "black culture" that we see. White people do it as well. They're just as bad. Yet, we look at white people who act that way with disapproval and show no remorse when they're caught by police, or killed by a police officer. We grant leniency and act as if it's society's fault when the same thing occurs in blacks. The real truth is that society doesn't perpetuate that black people are inferior or have to commit crimes or anything close to that. You find the most pressure coming from peer-to-peer relationships and social bonds. Even in the slums of NYC where I went to school (among a majority black/minority community), there is still education, guidance, help and direction for everyone, not just for those who seek it out. There's a reason that "acting white" is a slur in places that do have black culture. And it only makes more sense considering how high black-on-black crime is. You find this same elevated crime rate in most places that have black culture.
Unbounded

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Nov 15, 2015 6:19 AM #1415934
Quote from Externus
Might be a little of both. Not a cause of being black, but letting yourself give into that rowdy, uneducated "black culture" that we see. White people do it as well. They're just as bad. Yet, we look at white people who act that way with disapproval and show no remorse when they're caught by police, or killed by a police officer. We grant leniency and act as if it's society's fault when the same thing occurs in blacks. The real truth is that society doesn't perpetuate that black people are inferior or have to commit crimes or anything close to that. You find the most pressure coming from peer-to-peer relationships and social bonds. Even in the slums of NYC where I went to school (among a majority black/minority community), there is still education, guidance, help and direction for everyone, not just for those who seek it out. There's a reason that "acting white" is a slur in places that do have black culture. And it only makes more sense considering how high black-on-black crime is. You find this same elevated crime rate in most places that have black culture.


Society, sometimes unintentionally, most definitely helps perpetuate systemic racism. Stuff like Redlining, Employers being less likely to call people back with "black-sounding" names, or black people being more likely to be arrested for nonviolent crime than white people.

So yes, there are mounds upon mounds of data supporting the assertion that black people can, and often do get the short end of the stick. We do find that black people receive harsher, unjustified penalties for doing the same things that white people do.

Not everything that affects us is overt by any means. It's rarely ever a dude at the top who thinks "Lol, black people r dumb so I rejekt dis applikashun hurdur". It's more often than not death by a thousand cuts. It's: "Okay, this guy is black. I'm not sure if he'd be a good fit for the job", or "This woman is black and checking all of the equipment in our store. There might be something up..." or even "This kid is black at night. There's a good chance he's dangerous". Slight pushes here and there. Normally they wouldn't be a big deal. If several thousand people are doing them though? In aggregate they can mess you up.

Sure, you can be extremely lucky as I have and manage to endure and duck around all the crap, but for every black person who manages to get past that torrent, there's a sizable amount of people who didn't make it.

Also, if we want to throw in some personal experience, I've never once been told I was "acting white" by a black person. I've always, always heard it from a white person who thought that suddenly because I didn't fit a some sort of stereotype that I was suddenly a white person or something like that. Shit is offensive.
Tun3
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Nov 15, 2015 6:55 AM #1415943
.....
Scarecrow
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Nov 15, 2015 7:25 AM #1415953
I have a suspicion that for the most part racial inequality has been eliminated. From systems, laws, and society's rules, that is. You can't eliminate it from individuals... but those dinosaurs who still feel that way will die out quickly over the next generation or two.
Externus
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Nov 15, 2015 9:24 AM #1415963
Quote from Unbounded
Society, sometimes unintentionally, most definitely helps perpetuate systemic racism. Stuff like Redlining, Employers being less likely to call people back with "black-sounding" names, or black people being more likely to be arrested for nonviolent crime than white people.

So yes, there are mounds upon mounds of data supporting the assertion that black people can, and often do get the short end of the stick. We do find that black people receive harsher, unjustified penalties for doing the same things that white people do.

Not everything that affects us is overt by any means. It's rarely ever a dude at the top who thinks "Lol, black people r dumb so I rejekt dis applikashun hurdur". It's more often than not death by a thousand cuts. It's: "Okay, this guy is black. I'm not sure if he'd be a good fit for the job", or "This woman is black and checking all of the equipment in our store. There might be something up..." or even "This kid is black at night. There's a good chance he's dangerous". Slight pushes here and there. Normally they wouldn't be a big deal. If several thousand people are doing them though? In aggregate they can mess you up.

Sure, you can be extremely lucky as I have and manage to endure and duck around all the crap, but for every black person who manages to get past that torrent, there's a sizable amount of people who didn't make it.

Also, if we want to throw in some personal experience, I've never once been told I was "acting white" by a black person. I've always, always heard it from a white person who thought that suddenly because I didn't fit a some sort of stereotype that I was suddenly a white person or something like that. Shit is offensive.


Acting white is a huge problem in black subcommunties. There's lots of articles, books, and journals published about blacks who face prejudice from their peers because they "act white." Like, it even has it's own Wikipedia. It's so prevalent that I had to learn about this class I took on analyzing pop culture.
Do blacks get the short end of the stick or are people also worried about their own investment? The sassy black person is a common archetype for a reason. I myself would never allow someone with that attitude to represent my company or business, and it's not unjust or even close to immoral to choose not to. As I mentioned earlier, there would be no leniency for a white guy who came in and presented a bad attitude with low work ethic/respect for authority. There shouldn't be for black people either. And if it's more prevalent in blacks, I'm gonna side with the whites and vice versa.

Also, I'd like to point out I'm not white nor am I wealthy. I've been around these people the first 11 years of my life, so I'm not really biased.
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Nov 15, 2015 3:01 PM #1415991
Quote from Externus

Do blacks get the short end of the stick or are people also worried about their own investment?


There's absolutely no reason it couldn't be both, but that doesn't mean it doesn't unjustly screw over people of color.


The sassy black person is a common archetype for a reason.

What's that reason? Any sort of citation would be nice.

I myself would never allow someone with that attitude to represent my company or business, and it's not unjust or even close to immoral to choose not to. As I mentioned earlier, there would be no leniency for a white guy who came in and presented a bad attitude with low work ethic/respect for authority. There shouldn't be for black people either. And if it's more prevalent in blacks, I'm gonna side with the whites and vice versa.


Uh, the fun thing about that article I posted earlier is they weren't even being called in for the interview.

From the article:

Quote from Article

Now a "field experiment" by NBER Faculty Research Fellows Marianne Bertrand and Sendhil Mullainathan measures this discrimination in a novel way. In response to help-wanted ads in Chicago and Boston newspapers, they sent resumes with either African-American- or white-sounding names and then measured the number of callbacks each resume received for interviews. Thus, they experimentally manipulated perception of race via the name on the resume. Half of the applicants were assigned African-American names that are "remarkably common" in the black population, the other half white sounding names, such as Emily Walsh or Greg Baker.

To see how the credentials of job applicants affect discrimination, the authors varied the quality of the resumes they used in response to a given ad. Higher quality applicants were given a little more labor market experience on average and fewer holes in their employment history. They were also portrayed as more likely to have an email address, to have completed some certification degree, to possess foreign language skills, or to have been awarded some honors.

In total, the authors responded to more than 1,300 employment ads in the sales, administrative support, clerical, and customer services job categories, sending out nearly 5,000 resumes. The ads covered a large spectrum of job quality, from cashier work at retail establishments and clerical work in a mailroom to office and sales management positions.

The results indicate large racial differences in callback rates to a phone line with a voice mailbox attached and a message recorded by someone of the appropriate race and gender. Job applicants with white names needed to send about 10 resumes to get one callback; those with African-American names needed to send around 15 resumes to get one callback. This would suggest either employer prejudice or employer perception that race signals lower productivity.


They're rejecting them before they even got the interview. This means that they're rejecting them without any sort of evidence that they possess said attitude you seem to be so interested in. If you interview them and find out that they aren't a good fit then that's one thing. If you aren't doing the first and assuming the latter with no other evidence besides "they sound like they might be black and are therefore worse", we have a problem.

Quote from Scarecrow
I have a suspicion that for the most part racial inequality has been eliminated. From systems, laws, and society's rules, that is. You can't eliminate it from individuals... but those dinosaurs who still feel that way will die out quickly over the next generation or two.


The problem there is that you have racially biased individuals enforcing laws.

And it's really not just a few old people doing it all or something like that. It's not really a binary, it's a spectrum that all of us fall somewhere on. (I'm admittedly guilty of this as well.) The best way to deal with it isn't to simply try to mind your business and wait it out. It requires awareness on our parts regarding our actions towards people of various groups.
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Nov 15, 2015 7:57 PM #1416069
Quote from Unbounded


It requires awareness on our parts regarding our actions towards people of various groups.


And how are we (society as a whole) supposed to do that when we're so used to what we see and hear everyday?
Unbounded

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Nov 15, 2015 11:47 PM #1416096
Quote from Person McPerson
And how are we (society as a whole) supposed to do that when we're so used to what we see and hear everyday?


Taking a few minutes to think about how you treat people, why you treat them like that, and if you're treating them fairly or not is a pretty OK place to start.
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Nov 18, 2015 1:24 AM #1416651
Quote from Unbounded
Taking a few minutes to think about how you treat people, why you treat them like that, and if you're treating them fairly or not is a pretty OK place to start.


What's interesting about this statement is its naivety. When comparing one person to another, you'll never see the same morality. Though what you're saying may be agreed upon, it's not the way everyone will see it, especially those with a different upbringing. Someone brought up in a home which has racist tendencies, if introduced to no others will likely develop them themselves; we take our sense of right and wrong from our surroundings, our own perceptions. For this reason people commit genocides. They view their actions as justified, and hence do it. Trying to bring everyone to your view may seem like the correct thing to do, maybe even for the majority, but it's still in and of itself conditioning which one could argue is wrong, even if for the "right" reasons. As the saying goes, the road to hell is paved with good intent.
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