I must admit I am a terribly lazy Christian, but I still identify as a christian nonetheless.

Human knowledge is finite, thus Religion as a mode of belief in that which can't be explained will always exist. While Religion might appear to be decreasing, due to the exponential growth of the human population, I would argue that this is really only the case in highly developed 1st world countries, which make up the vast minority in terms of population and have the lowest birth rates. Religious subscription is on the uptick. What is decreasing, contrary to popular belief, is the amount of Religious extremism.

Yes, extremism has had a high media focus since 9/11, specifically muslims extremist, but that same awareness itself is decreasing its [extremist] numbers. We live in the most peaceful era on Earth, back during the Crusades, the entire Catholic church was what we would call extremist then.

This is because the powers associated with Religion, mainly control have been significantly reduced and supplanted by more powerful "control systems" like Money, and so its merely being consigned to a purely spiritual role.

Quote from Ash

Yeah, I have my Facebook public, it says I'm an agnostic atheist, and I wear this shirt in public sometimes. I'm in the US (In Oklahoma, which is actually one of the most religious parts of the US):

I too, live in a hyper-conservative religious society. Except their I'd get beheaded for switching religion and making it public .-.

Was the exact opposite for me. Grew up tentatively religious. Internet debates and media as a whole made me want to actually learn what religions are about. Studied the main 3 and a few other religions. Learned more about Islam. Found out it falls essentially hand in hand with science consistently and there's lots of made up controversy to make it seem as if it's a bad religion, ie., "violent" quotes and stuff like that. There's a crazy amount of facts or coincidences if you would in that religion, and considering that this was written 1700 years ago, I'm convinced enough.

Quote from Externus

Was the exact opposite for me. Grew up tentatively religious. Internet debates and media as a whole made me want to actually learn what religions are about. Studied the main 3 and a few other religions. Learned more about Islam. Found out it falls essentially hand in hand with science consistently and there's lots of made up controversy to make it seem as if it's a bad religion, ie., "violent" quotes and stuff like that. There's a crazy amount of facts or coincidences if you would in that religion, and considering that this was written 1700 years ago, I'm convinced enough.

[citation needed]

If you're talking about the way you can take lines from the text of the Quran out of context and they sound kinda sorta like what science says happened to things, then well, that's just not a very compelling argument.

Quote from Ash

[citation needed]

If you're talking about the way you can take lines from the text of the Quran out of context and they sound kinda sorta like what science says happened to things, then well, that's just not a very compelling argument.

I'll mention a few things off the top of my head.
1) We sent down Iron. Neither or Sun nor Earth's core are powerful enough to engage nuclear fusion which would create Iron. As expected, all the Iron on Earth came from elsewhere, probably asteroids and dust. Pretty damn specific.

2) Genetics. There is 23 mentions of the word man and 23 mentions of the word woman in the Quran. The Quran also states that the history and progression of humans come from inside us. Also, the Quran says that life, or humans, were "made" from clay. There's a new theory about the origin of life that it started in clay, completely unrelated to Islam.

3) Universe. Quran says the Universe arose from clouds of dust. Nebulas. Sounds like a pretty specific thing to be "taken out of context?"

4) Extraterrestrial life. Quran openly says that there is other life in the Universe, and they are also much more powerful and advanced. It's pretty logical to assume there is other life out there. The chances of life not being anywhere in the Universe is pretty slim.

5) The Sun will die. Pretty straightforward. Says the Sun will reach it's resting place.

6) World will end in a red sky. The Sun will envelop and engulf the Earth when it becomes a Red Giant as it nears the end of its life.

7) Here's something that just struck me a little weird. Can't say it's telltale evidence, but it was still odd to me.
"You will see the mountains you reckoned to be solid going past like clouds – the handwork of Allah Who gives to everything its solidity"
I read a while back that this could be attributed to atoms. Specifically, the likening to clouds. Made me think of electrons. Electron cloud model. I dunno.


Stuff I got literally from the top of my head, save for the quote of course.

Well, I agree with the facts, religion has taken a blow in the recent years with, what I call it, "Rise of the Planet of the Atheists..." But how I see it, being a Christian myself, I categorize the world's beliefs into three sections, the Atheists, (who I don't mind at all, they're very smart people) the Christians, and the Muslims, those, in my opinion are the three main groups in today's modern world. Now, everybody has a right to their own opinion, and personally, I would really like to see a religious revival in the next few coming years, the reason being I think religion gives something for people to strive for, morals that they can uphold themselves to live better lives, at least that's the way I see it.

Now, compare that to the Muslims, I am not generalizing all Muslims into this group, do not get me wrong, but a certain group of them think that the right thing to do, is to kill innocent people that they can spread their religion through fear, not by freewill. So I guess what I'm trying to say is, I don't mind the atheists beliefs, I just hope this world will set the right morals for itself...
Okay... Rant: over

Quote from Externus

Was the exact opposite for me. Grew up tentatively religious. Internet debates and media as a whole made me want to actually learn what religions are about. Studied the main 3 and a few other religions. Learned more about Islam. Found out it falls essentially hand in hand with science consistently and there's lots of made up controversy to make it seem as if it's a bad religion, ie., "violent" quotes and stuff like that. There's a crazy amount of facts or coincidences if you would in that religion, and considering that this was written 1700 years ago, I'm convinced enough.

The relationship between Religion and Science is misconstrued as pure counters, when in reality, the parts of religion that people argue contradict science, when removed don't actually have that much of an effect whatsoever. The reason these contradictory pieces are tacked on is to achieve objectives that use said religion as a tool. As belief systems, Religion and Science are "sisters", the former relies on faith and interpretation, while the latter relies on empirical observation, both are human constructs, but science has the advantage in that its method of proliferation, a free open society (for lack of better terms), restricts its capability as a tool unlike that of Religion.

It's not unusual for their to be overlap as they are both attempts to understand the unknown.

Quote from IgnusBurns

Well, I agree with the facts, religion has taken a blow in the recent years with, what I call it, "Rise of the Planet of the Atheists..." But how I see it, being a Christian myself, I categorize the world's beliefs into three sections, the Atheists, (who I don't mind at all, they're very smart people) the Christians, and the Muslims, those, in my opinion are the three main groups in today's modern world. Now, everybody has a right to their own opinion, and personally, I would really like to see a religious revival in the next few coming years, the reason being I think religion gives something for people to strive for, morals that they can uphold themselves to live better lives, at least that's the way I see it.

Now, compare that to the Muslims, I am not generalizing all Muslims into this group, do not get me wrong, but a certain group of them think that the right thing to do, is to kill innocent people that they can spread their religion through fear, not by freewill. So I guess what I'm trying to say is, I don't mind the atheists beliefs, I just hope this world will set the right morals for itself...
Okay... Rant: over

As a Christian, I think this "Blow" is actually positive. What Religion has lost are the aspects that made it so powerful in the first place, in a sense its purer, or rather can be purer today than it was in the past. Muslim Extremists are struggling today to create an Islamic State ruled completely by Sharia Law, when earlier in human history, Islam and Christianity dominated empires and nations.

Quote from The Organization

The relationship between Religion and Science is misconstrued as pure counters, when in reality, the parts of religion that people argue contradict science, when removed don't actually have that much of an effect whatsoever. The reason these contradictory pieces are tacked on is to achieve objectives that use said religion as a tool. As belief systems, Religion and Science are "sisters", the former relies on faith and interpretation, while the latter relies on empirical observation, both are human constructs, but science has the advantage in that its method of proliferation, a free open society (for lack of better terms), restricts its capability as a tool unlike that of Religion.

It's not unusual for their to be overlap as they are both attempts to understand the unknown.

Religion is in no way inherently restricted. Islam strictly says those who do good, even Non-Muslims, will go to heaven, so long as they're not shoving AK's down a Muslims throat. Even Christianity was fairly open until Kings literally began editing the Bible and choosing what they wanted. I'm not even joking. They literally picked and chose what they wanted the Bible to say and what they didn't. I'd say that Christianity would be exactly alike to Islam if it weren't so heavily edited by Man, unlike the Quran, which has apparently never been edited. Religion in itself is a way to live a "better life," but Islam specifically doesn't punish those who have never had exposure to it. Simply put, those who do wrong are punished. There's extremism in religion, but that's exactly what it is. Extremism, often misguided.

Quote from IgnusBurns

Now, compare that to the Muslims, I am not generalizing all Muslims into this group, do not get me wrong, but a certain group of them think that the right thing to do, is to kill innocent people that they can spread their religion through fear, not by freewill. So I guess what I'm trying to say is, I don't mind the atheists beliefs, I just hope this world will set the right morals for itself...
Okay... Rant: over

I understand you said you're not generalizing, but it's not like ISIS or ISIL mean anything or even come close to representing Islam. They're not following the religion. They can claim their Islamic or Muslim, but they just aren't, just like I can go and kill a billion people and claim that I'm black. Doesn't make me black, nor does it make what I'm doing even close to justified. There is not 1 mention of innocent murder or even legal fighting in Islam aside from self defense. Every single violent quote you see is all taken out of context on instruction when you're attacked at certain places or just attacked in general, which at that point I'd say it's pretty clear and justified to "kill an infidel" if he's coming to murder you. Realistically, Islam is about not instigating any conflict and it repeatedly says those who do instigate conflict will be punished by God.

Quote from Externus

Religion is in no way inherently restricted. Islam strictly says those who do good, even Non-Muslims, will go to heaven, so long as they're not shoving AK's down a Muslims throat. Even Christianity was fairly open until Kings literally began editing the Bible and choosing what they wanted. I'm not even joking. They literally picked and chose what they wanted the Bible to say and what they didn't. I'd say that Christianity would be exactly alike to Islam if it weren't so heavily edited by Man, unlike the Quran, which has apparently never been edited. Religion in itself is a way to live a "better life," but Islam specifically doesn't punish those who have never had exposure to it. Simply put, those who do wrong are punished. There's extremism in religion, but that's exactly what it is. Extremism, often misguided.

That's why its not as resilient to "abuse" as Science is, you need markedly more political power to modify Religion to one's own aims rather than Science because of the scientific method and such. It's not impossible, see Edison vs. Tesla, and other battles of scientific doctrine, but Science has the additional property in that is "designed to be incorrect", things are only right until one example proves them wrong, while in Religion, difference in interpretation and culture make it a lot more resistant to change.

In other words, Religion is easier to change (Forcefully), but changes infrequently, while Science is harder to change (Forcefully), but changes all the times.
It's almost paradoxical in that way.

Quote from Externus

I'll mention a few things off the top of my head.
1) We sent down Iron. Neither or Sun nor Earth's core are powerful enough to engage nuclear fusion which would create Iron. As expected, all the Iron on Earth came from elsewhere, probably asteroids and dust. Pretty damn specific.

Where is the source of this line?

And also, how could asteroids and dust account for a huge molten core composed mostly of iron?

Here's an article on where iron actually came from, according to science: http://quatr.us/chemistry/atoms/iron.htm

tl;dr: It came from other stars. The matter that makes up planets starts as scattered particulate matter which eventually coalesces into big balls of loose matter, which compress into hot molten balls, and eventually cool to become planets.

2) Genetics. There is 23 mentions of the word man and 23 mentions of the word woman in the Quran. The Quran also states that the history and progression of humans come from inside us. Also, the Quran says that life, or humans, were "made" from clay. There's a new theory about the origin of life that it started in clay, completely unrelated to Islam.

First, that is an argument from numerology, which doesn't tell you anything. People can pull any number out of a huge sample set like that, it's not remotely impressive. Heck, there's even a Jim Carrey film in which he becomes obsessed with the number 23 (Incidentally the film is called "The Number 23"), finding it all over the world. Why? Because we live in a world of various quantities and figures, and if you have a lot of quantities of different things, you can pull a significant number out of them.

Where does the Quran say that the "history and progression of humans come from inside us"? I mean, even if it does, you're stretching a random phrase that was taken out of context and reading into it that it is referring to evolution. How is that supposed to convince anyone of anything?

Also, if there's a theory that the origin of life started in CLAY of all things, that is news to me.

3) Universe. Quran says the Universe arose from clouds of dust. Nebulas. Sounds like a pretty specific thing to be "taken out of context?"

[Citation needed].

4) Extraterrestrial life. Quran openly says that there is other life in the Universe, and they are also much more powerful and advanced. It's pretty logical to assume there is other life out there. The chances of life not being anywhere in the Universe is pretty slim.

Now come on. You're seriously going to say that without posting a citation too? Tell me where the Quran specifically refers to aliens from other planets. And then tell me all aobut how it's impossible for someone less than a millennia ago to imagine other worlds and people from those other worlds.

5) The Sun will die. Pretty straightforward. Says the Sun will reach it's resting place.

[citation needed]

6) World will end in a red sky. The Sun will envelop and engulf the Earth when it becomes a Red Giant as it nears the end of its life.

[Citation needed]

7) Here's something that just struck me a little weird. Can't say it's telltale evidence, but it was still odd to me.
"You will see the mountains you reckoned to be solid going past like clouds – the handwork of Allah Who gives to everything its solidity"
I read a while back that this could be attributed to atoms. Specifically, the likening to clouds. Made me think of electrons. Electron cloud model. I dunno.

What is this I don't even...

Just because you can stretch an analogy to sound vaguely like another analogy used in science doesn't mean it's got any significance either. You are also, again, disregarding the context, I suspect. Was this passage a discussion on the writer being given the powers of Dr. Manhattan to see the inner workings of the subatomic world? Or were they discussing something else?

Stuff I got literally from the top of my head, save for the quote of course.

I said "If you're talking about the way you can take lines from the text of the Quran out of context and they sound kinda sorta like what science says happened to things, then well, that's just not a very compelling argument. "

And that's exactly all you did. Actually no, you didn't even do that much, no you saw someone ELSE took lines from the quran that sound vaguely like scientific understanding when ignoring their context, and then you repeated these examples from memory.

If this is impressive to you, if this makes you think the Quran has deeper meaning, then you must not care much about whether the things you believe are actually true, because that can be done with innumerable texts through history.

Furthermore, it also says in the Quran "Do they not see the birds controlled in the atmosphere of the sky? None holds them up except Allah." This statement, though, is false, meaning that if we're to take your train of thought and run with it, we must consider the quran in error.

Finally, if the writer of the quran DID intend to hide scientific knowledge in the quran, what use is that knowledge if it's only revealed when modern scholars read the Quran and heavily interpret the text to be read as references to scientific knowledge?

Quote from Ash

Where is the source of this line?

And also, how could asteroids and dust account for a huge molten core composed mostly of iron?

Here's an article on where iron actually came from, according to science: http://quatr.us/chemistry/atoms/iron.htmfm

tl;dr: It came from other stars. The matter that makes up planets starts as scattered particulate matter which eventually coalesces into big balls of loose matter, which compress into hot molten balls, and eventually cool to become planets.




First, that is an argument from numerology, which doesn't tell you anything. People can pull any number out of a huge sample set like that, it's not remotely impressive. Heck, there's even a Jim Carrey film in which he becomes obsessed with the number 23 (Incidentally the film is called "The Number 23"), finding it all over the world. Why? Because we live in a world of various quantities and figures, and if you have a lot of quantities of different things, you can pull a significant number out of them.

Where does the Quran say that the "history and progression of humans come from inside us"? I mean, even if it does, you're stretching a random phrase that was taken out of context and reading into it that it is referring to evolution. How is that supposed to convince anyone of anything?

Also, if there's a theory that the origin of life started in CLAY of all things, that is news to me.





[Citation needed].



Now come on. You're seriously going to say that without posting a citation too? Tell me where the Quran specifically refers to aliens from other planets. And then tell me all aobut how it's impossible for someone less than a millennia ago to imagine other worlds and people from those other worlds.



[citation needed]



[Citation needed]





What is this I don't even...

Just because you can stretch an analogy to sound vaguely like another analogy used in science doesn't mean it's got any significance either. You are also, again, disregarding the context, I suspect. Was this passage a discussion on the writer being given the powers of Dr. Manhattan to see the inner workings of the subatomic world? Or were they discussing something else?




I said "If you're talking about the way you can take lines from the text of the Quran out of context and they sound kinda sorta like what science says happened to things, then well, that's just not a very compelling argument. "

And that's exactly all you did. Actually no, you didn't even do that much, no you saw someone ELSE took lines from the quran that sound vaguely like scientific understanding when ignoring their context, and then you repeated these examples from memory.

If this is impressive to you, if this makes you think the Quran has deeper meaning, then you must not care much about whether the things you believe are actually true, because that can be done with innumerable texts through history.

Furthermore, it also says in the Quran "Do they not see the birds controlled in the atmosphere of the sky? None holds them up except Allah." This statement, though, is false, meaning that if we're to take your train of thought and run with it, we must consider the quran in error.

Finally, if the writer of the quran DID intend to hide scientific knowledge in the quran, what use is that knowledge if it's only revealed when modern scholars read the Quran and heavily interpret the text to be read as references to scientific knowledge?

Google it yourself if you want citations lmao.
I'll start off with a few citations, but I'm not really gonna bother trying to convince you of anything because your mind is clearly made up regardless.
"And We also sent down iron in which there lies great force and which has many uses for mankind… (Qur'an, 57:25)"

"Then He turned to the heaven when it was smoke." (Quran, 41:11), "Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity, then We separated them?..." (Quran, 21:30) On the creation of the Universe.

"Allah is He Who raised up the heavens without any support – you can see that – and then established Himself firmly on the Throne. He made the Sun and Moon subservient, each running for a specified term. He directs the whole affair. He makes the Signs clear so that hopefully you will be certain about the meeting with your Lord." (Surat ar- Ra‘d, 2) Sun expiring.

"But instead, they deny the Hour; and We have prepared a Searing Blaze for those who deny the Hour." (Surat al-Furqan, 11), "On the Day the sky is like molten brass." (Surat al-Ma‘arij, 8), "When heaven is split apart and goes red like dregs of oil." (Surat ar-Rahman, 37). Sky will be red and hot on the Day of Judgement.


If none of this makes you question what you believe considering all of this was written 1700 years ago when people thought thunder came from clouds colliding, you probably should reconsider your own beliefs. You use the term vague like it means anything. If God were to make it clear that he was real, that would defeat the purpose of God. There would be no belief. Only people who worshiped in fear because they fully understood they would go to Hell if they didn't.

You're misconstruing the fact that these are written for a reason. If a man did write these, he must be pretty damn clairvoyant, because NONE of this was the logic set of any person or group on Earth at the time. Only this niche group somehow made these weird, almost idiotic claims? Why would the Sun expire or have a specified time? Why claim Iron was sent from above when everyone mines it from the Earth? I can't tell you what's real or isn't, but considering this is on the same track as what we're discovering now, 1700 years later, I'd put more faith in whatever the clairvoyant psychic man who wrote this book of lies apparently knew than anything else. These claims make sense to nobody for almost 2 thousand years until it does now that we know more. Again, my goal isn't to convince you, convert you, or whatever. This is my reasoning for what I believe.
I find it more laughable to say that someone made this up or everything is always coincidence than to say God couldn't have sent this down.

Quote from Externus

Google it yourself if you want citations lmao.

I'm not doing the legwork because you're too lazy to support your own arguments.

I'll start off with a few citations, but I'm not really gonna bother trying to convince you of anything because your mind is clearly made up regardless.

My mind isn't "made up" about anything. I hold everything in a state of tentative certainty, I don't conclude and stop thinking.

"And We also sent down iron in which there lies great force and which has many uses for mankind… (Qur'an, 57:25)"

Except that's not even what science says iron came from. This doesn't even support your argument, regardless of context.

"Then He turned to the heaven when it was smoke." (Quran, 41:11), "Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity, then We separated them?..." (Quran, 21:30) On the creation of the Universe.

What specifically do you think this is referencing about the world? The accretion disk?

"Allah is He Who raised up the heavens without any support – you can see that – and then established Himself firmly on the Throne. He made the Sun and Moon subservient, each running for a specified term. He directs the whole affair. He makes the Signs clear so that hopefully you will be certain about the meeting with your Lord." (Surat ar- Ra‘d, 2) Sun expiring.

"But instead, they deny the Hour; and We have prepared a Searing Blaze for those who deny the Hour." (Surat al-Furqan, 11), "On the Day the sky is like molten brass." (Surat al-Ma‘arij, 8), "When heaven is split apart and goes red like dregs of oil." (Surat ar-Rahman, 37). Sky will be red and hot on the Day of Judgement.

Sounds like Allah forgot to do his research. We won't be around to see the sun turn into a Red Giant. Besides, the sky turning red isn't exactly without precedent, ya know. Ever seen a sunset?

If none of this makes you question what you believe considering all of this was written 1700 years ago when people thought thunder came from clouds colliding, you probably should reconsider your own beliefs.

Why would it? All of it is extremely mystical descriptions of things that sound vaguely like scientific knowledge, or even worse, like incorrect understandings of scientific knowledge (like iron coming from the sky).

You use the term vague like it means anything.

It does. It means nonspecific. Which is important when you are claiming that an ancient text contains anacronistic scienntific knowledge, and instead it contains passages that can be construed as sounding kinda sort like scientific foreknowledge. You're saying "Look at how incredible this is", but it's on par with a poor Star Wars fan theory.

If God were to make it clear that he was real, that would defeat the purpose of God. There would be no belief. Only people who worshiped in fear because they fully understood they would go to Hell if they didn't.

How is that a problem for me? You're saying "Look at how impressive their knowledge of science was", then when I point out that it's not only non-impressive, it's downright lame in how poorly it fits scientific knowledge and how wide your interpretations are, you're saying "Well if it was accurate there'd be no place for faith.

If the accuracy of the scientific claims of the quran isn't supposed to impress me into believing, then why bother using it as evidence?

You're misconstruing the fact that these are written for a reason. If a man did write these, he must be pretty damn clairvoyant, because NONE of this was the logic set of any person or group on Earth at the time. Only this niche group somehow made these weird, almost idiotic claims? Why would the Sun expire or have a specified time?

Because they were talking about the end of the world. Why would the idea that a moving ball of light, which was recognized as being extremely important, will eventually have a final resting place at the end of the world be suprising?

Why claim Iron was sent from above when everyone mines it from the Earth?

And they were wrong, so what's your point?

I can't tell you what's real or isn't, but considering this is on the same track as what we're discovering now, 1700 years later, I'd put more faith in whatever the clairvoyant psychic man who wrote this book of lies apparently knew than anything else.

I have a few Nostrodomus books you're going to LOVE if you think that the Quran is an example of clairvoyance.

These claims make sense to nobody for almost 2 thousand years until it does now that we know more. Again, my goal isn't to convince you, convert you, or whatever. This is my reasoning for what I believe.

This is the Debate section. If you aren't here to convince me, I don't know why you're here.

I find it more laughable to say that someone made this up or everything is always coincidence than to say God couldn't have sent this down.

Wait, are you not aware of The Book of Mormon? Or the religion of Scientology? How about the numerous other beliefs people have? Do you think that Joseph Smith was telling the truth about this egyptian tablet? Or that Emeters truly do measure the number of thetans in your body? Charlatans aren't new.

Quote from Ash

I'm not doing the legwork because you're too lazy to support your own arguments.




My mind isn't "made up" about anything. I hold everything in a state of tentative certainty, I don't conclude and stop thinking.



Except that's not even what science says iron came from. This doesn't even support your argument, regardless of context.




What specifically do you think this is referencing about the world? The accretion disk?



Sounds like Allah forgot to do his research. We won't be around to see the sun turn into a Red Giant. Besides, the sky turning red isn't exactly without precedent, ya know. Ever seen a sunset?

Conjecture on your part. It is possible that we might be around, but you're pulling at straws and moot points. The Quran continuously says that we are not alone in the Universe, but our world, Earth, will end that way. There's still possibility that we will be around, just a very low one. But that makes no difference. In the context for mankind, our world, Earth will end in that way.

Also, I believe heaven and Earth being cleft when they were one being refers to the creation of the Universe. Just my opinion. Big Bang. That type of thing. No point in making any claims about either because realistically, science doesn't have much of an explanation either. I assume most things will unravel as we learn more, just like it has been with other points in Islam.

Science doesn't disagree with Islam on Iron. It disagrees with me, because it was conjecture on my part to assume it was being of asteroids or dust. Also, your link about Iron is broken, but you do realize that still proves nothing. Islam says it came from the skies or was sent down. That's exactly what happened. I said it may have been because of asteroids because I guess that's an apocryphal theory and was just solely conjecture on my part, and I think that was pretty clear.

Fixed that link, and edited my comment to include a response to your edit.

Conjecture on your part. It is possible that we might be around, but you're pulling at straws and moot points. The Quran continuously says that we are not alone in the Universe, but our world, Earth, will end that way. There's still possibility that we will be around, just a very low one. But that makes no difference. In the context for mankind, our world, Earth will end in that way.

"Pulling at straws" says the guy who uses "they said the sky would be red at the end of the world" to justify "they knew the dynamics of the deaths of stars". Even though red is commonly the color of aggression, murder, war, and fire, and even though the sky is red often at sunsets, making the idea of a final sunset on the end of the world extremely obvious.

It's not "pulling at straws" to say that just because a few quotes from the quran can be construed as sounding kind of like scientific knowledge doesn't mean the writer was actually granted knowledge of the natural world beyond the knowledge of the time.

Also, I believe heaven and Earth being cleft when they were one being refers to the creation of the Universe. Just my opinion. Big Bang. That type of thing. No point in making any claims about either because realistically, science doesn't have much of an explanation either. I assume most things will unravel as we learn more, just like it has been with other points in Islam.

If science "doesn't have much of an explanation either", then how can you call it scientific foreknowledge? And also, that's a BROAD interpretation of "the heavens and the earth were separated". It's also obvious you're taking the interpretation that is most favorable to your assumtion that this is a reference to science, instead of actually reading the Quran yourself and getting the Quran's own model of cosmology, which would make it obvious that it's description of the earth is of a world with a heaven and the earth as two distinct physical areas that were once a single physical area but were separated at some point.

Science doesn't disagree with Islam on Iron. It disagrees with me, because it was conjecture on my part to assume it was being of asteroids or dust. Also, your link about Iron is broken, but you do realize that still proves nothing. Islam says it came from the skies or was sent down. That's exactly what happened. I said it may have been because of asteroids because I guess that's an apocryphal theory and was just solely conjecture on my part, and I think that was pretty clear.

Except iron didn't come to the earth from the sky. At all. The iron has always been part of the earth, as long as the earth has been around. It's one of the elements that was present when the accretion disk that would later form our solar system was still just a bunch of gas.

Quote from Ash

Yeah, I have my Facebook public, it says I'm an agnostic atheist, and I wear this shirt in public sometimes. I'm in the US (In Oklahoma, which is actually one of the most religious parts of the US):

O_O You actually do that? Well, kudos to you.

And I don't know for you guys, but here where I live (CA) religion doesn't seem to be dying or anything.