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I'm back with a new ele composition: Aggro Heatwave!

Started by: PUMU | Replies: 9 | Views: 3,590

PUMU
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Jul 22, 2016 2:32 PM #1455258
The composition is for going up against the order empire as elementals and has yet to be tested extensively upon both ele and chaos respectively but shall be in the near future. Nevertheless, let me proceed upon elaborating upon the subject of the comp and how to apply it to the EvO MU.

You start off the match how one normally would with the main start being 3 earths, allowing us as ele to fall back upon sighting the opponent utilizing the archer start. (Commonplace against order players of higher level against ele) You should be able to capture tower first for at least 1-2 pings of 20 gold to steady out and easily burst rush your economy with earth ques at a steady pace. Should your opponent rush at you with their current composition of an archer (with possibly some swords to follow) you can easily earth micro to tank the damage of arrows as you continue to pump earths. Eventually overwhelming the opponents melee units that will most likely be running in to anticipate a castle air which may or may not be qued. If you are successful with your micromanagement with your earths, you can then, que a water to push away the enemy archer presence. Once this is done you can convert the following earths to chomplers before queing a fire which is where the application of your pressure can begin. The potential for a scorch may or may not be able to end The game in itself but your primary focus should be to intimidate the opponent into spending gold on both hustle, wall, and additional swords and archers to deal with your approaching army. Continue to que both fires and occasional waters to continue the pressure as you tech into hustle along with ts1 which should allow you to start chipping away at the opponents wall and eventually pressing into their base at which time you should follow up your fire ques with at least 1-2 airs and watch how your opponent reacts according to the presence of your current army to determine whether you should go for infernoes or double cycloids to begin your end game as you continue to pump more fire and charrog pressure. Not allowing for much breathing room.
The end result should be your opponent pinned under the garrison or fighting from just behind the statue which will allow for a clap of units with infernoes, cycloids or scorch. Earning you the game.
Zomar

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Jul 22, 2016 3:05 PM #1455260
I used to think ele could do whatever they want and it would be a guaranteed win vs order.

Then I read this.

If you think a fire and a water will push back swords and archers, you're delusional. The entire strategy then fails to work.
PUMU
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Jul 22, 2016 3:19 PM #1455264
You obviously have several earths to accompany your units to tank for your fire and combat the swords. Staying relatively even in army in this manner whilst queing more fires and additional waters. I think my words were "following earths" to suggest that you will be using earths to press against the orders comp. the water itself will push the archer back allowing for you to press him initially, followed by the fire to disuade the pressing in of swords and encouraging the use of more archers at which point you will strive for ts1 and several fires along with your initial earths to create more charrogs.
Zomar

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Jul 22, 2016 3:46 PM #1455266
The way to push order off tower is to threaten the archers. This is why deads and trees are so effective vs order, for the poison and root ability respectively. Just 'having a water' isn't much of a threat as long as the order player can locate his G key. The earths will only tickle the swords a bit, and you can't chase archers with them. The fire is your primary source of dps, and they can't actually hit an archer whilst being kited themselves. Also by the time you have a fire + water + a number of earths, the Order player would have at least 3 archers themselves.

To force them back, you'd need a charrog if not a tree to chase them down and burn them all.

Nobody cares if their swords get hurt by the fire. It's all about saving the archers.
PUMU
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Jul 22, 2016 4:05 PM #1455268
The purpose of the water is to threaten the initial archer enough to push him away from the other half of the map and buy time for the fire that will be qued next which will in turn open up the potential for a charrog and/or scorch. I'm fully aware of the fact that the archers will be following up the initial one which is why the earths are there to run into his face along with the water to tank whilst closing the distance and following with more earths in the meantime. If the archer number outweighs that of the sword count early on I can run in the earths and tech into a charrog with more fires or go for the scorch clap seeing how the archers would be more gold heavy and prevent hustle from being qued. Should the sword and archer numbers be even then that would mean that I have successfully pressure the opponent into setting themselves up for two instances of scorch where I can simply prevent them from approaching my units with the threat of scorch and/or gradually close the distance for the economy clap. All the while buying time for my ts1 to proceed with the army i intend.
If the sword numbers are higher for whatever reason over the archers, well, that's pretty obvious how that'll work out. It's even more effective if the map size is shorter because yes, the order player will be relying primarily upon their superior kiting distance but the point is to not attempt to make excessive trades to allow this for free but rather to force them into the kiting as each time they opt for this they give up space in the process no matter how little it is.

Kinda needless to attempt to explain to me the scenarios in which the composition will likely to fail in when it fails to consider micro management and the ele players macro timing relative to the order players. I am quite experienced as the ele player against order. Most of this has been considered already prior to my post in the op.
Zomar

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Jul 22, 2016 4:39 PM #1455271
So basically you will make a charrog to push them off, which is a generic strategy used in OvE and not what was originally posted in the op.

All the stuff about 'I have successfully pressure them into two instances of scorch' - I have no clue what you're trying to say there, from what I understood you want to use scorch twice but on what? Scorch isn't cheap and sacrificing your fire like that is a big deal.

'Its obvious how that'll work out', I don't quite see what the secret master plan to deal with the swords would be actually. If you intend to use scorch on swords, there would have to be at least 7 killed to make a favorable trade. Who makes 7 swords that early? I don't see what else you could do with the units you're using aside from poking with the fire, which would delay this 'economy clap' that you're looking for to end the game.

And hey, sometimes I wonder if people do actually know what they're talking about. The amount of guides on these forums that fail to take into account the fact that you will have to fight another human is crazy.
Skeletonxf
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Jul 22, 2016 4:47 PM #1455272
Earths are great for tanking archers till the Order player has about 4 archers and then you can only use Charrogs. Waters are simply too slow to pressure archers that are g kiting.
PUMU
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Jul 22, 2016 5:18 PM #1455275
Which is why your primary focus should be to pressure whilst the earths are still able to tank, keeping the water at a safe distance until you've managed to cut off the map.

To answer your skepticism regarding the "master plan" for dealing with the swords it to basically keep them away from being able to melee anything with the threat of the scorch allowing further advancement on the archers and Eco. Gradually building upon your current army with more fires until ts1 has been researched at which point the airs and or more waters will follow for end units; not solely relying on scorch to end the game but having as a massive threat until the opponent manages to push it away for the time being. The scorch threat setting up for the ts1 and units techs
Nyarlathotep

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Jul 22, 2016 8:21 PM #1455285
I mean, the melee units aren't actually most of order's dps in most games... Generally order plays one of two styles: Archers into mage/ninja, or albows into ninja into mage. Scorch is not reallllllllly a threat to either of those unless the order is very badly out of position. If you aren't going for a big amount of tree pressure early the order is VERY safe to miner hustle and wall. Miner hustle stops you from getting this fantastical economy snipe you plan on getting, and wall just straight up hard counters it. Unless you can get the bomb in in the first couple minutes of the game vs someone who is very heavily investing into rage swords (i.e the wrong option vs ele) then you will struggle to find damage while the order very safely techs up.

I just don't see it working.
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Jul 22, 2016 9:10 PM #1455289
The potential for the first scorch arises just before the 1:35 mark where the opponent is still on his first row and queing swords and archers. Direct albow to ninja is interesting though I'm not too sure how that works when given the fact that ele can essentially build for free unless you go swords and archers prior. With nothing inhibiting economy as far as pressure goes on the ele player that notices the composition of the order player to be highly defensive then we can simply shift into V seiges with almost no issue using the ninjas as they come as free tanks since there is nothing else to stop aside from albows that could possibly fly over into the range of the fires. If the comp shifts to albow heavy then we can make cycloids rather quickly in response.
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