I know stick empires is kind of dead and according to ase the devs won't be updating it for a while. But I still had an idea I thought was good, so I wanted to share it and read your opinions.

Before, I think water heal was op. You could get a water close to your injured units that are fighting, give them a huge chunk of health again, and there was nothing your opponent could do. Your guys would be invincible if you had several waters lined up behind your tanks. Now it is useless and not worth 350 gold for healing.

My idea is that it gives a good amount of hp but in a regen style that can be interrupted. So if you used your water healing and your opponent damaged your units that are gaining hp, then the heal would be interrupted.

I'm not sure how much hp it would heal, maybe half a charrog's health?

The beef I have (or had) with the fact that the current healing is shit is that I can't preserve my expensive combinations that take damage like charrogs and cycloids. I'm forced to send them back to heal slowly back at the castle, and make sure not to press the attack button.

So with this idea, you can heal and preserve your combinations effectively, but there is a counter to it. Also, you may have to plan more about when and where to heal instead of just spamming q.

Seems like a good idea to me.

Quote from nutsophast

My idea is that it gives a good amount of hp but in a regen style that can be interrupted. So if you used your water healing and your opponent damaged your units that are gaining hp, then the heal would be interrupted.

I'm not sure how much hp it would heal, maybe half a charrog's health? .

A half charrog only, a half charrog for every unit it heals?

I like this idea overall. It would especially mean you can't just stream waters while attacking order castle and mass healing.

Just do two waters for the full charrog heal?

How about make elementals like the other two empires? So like, you don't needlessly sacrifice units and then try to gauge how much each unit is worth in contrast to output in either damage or ability power before combine or consumption in respect to things like waters so it makes balancing the empire hella easy.

Seems like a better idea to me. Buffing waters while keeping everything the way it is could prove disastrous. And if you don't know what I'm talking about when I say it's bad, you haven't seen my charrog build.

Quote from WyzDM

How about make elementals like the other two empires?

I think Ele was made with the sole purpose of not being like the other two lol

Quote from AsePlayer

I think Ele was made with the sole purpose of not being like the other two lol

and we wonder why there are so many problems

Quote from WyzDM

and we wonder why there are so many problems

Because some units have no fundamental purpose and need some reworking but the devs are currently busy?

Quote from AsePlayer

Because some units have no fundamental purpose and need some reworking but the devs are currently busy?

They've been busy for about 3 years.

Quote from Firewall

They've been busy for about 3 years.

And counting lol

Quote from WyzDM

How about make elementals like the other two empires? So like, you don't needlessly sacrifice units and then try to gauge how much each unit is worth in contrast to output in either damage or ability power before combine or consumption in respect to things like waters so it makes balancing the empire hella easy.

Seems like a better idea to me. Buffing waters while keeping everything the way it is could prove disastrous. And if you don't know what I'm talking about when I say it's bad, you haven't seen my charrog build.

I agree with Wyz slightly.

Ele does have many features not previously in the game and it has broke it. Early game ele is a problem now. The relationship between Tress, Waters and Earth is wrong. Personally I do two things.


1. Lower the gold cost of all 4 base units and vary the mana costs of the combined units varying the game play giving ele more options early game

2. Give waters some offensive power makeing them a direct competitor of archers, crawlers and swords etc. I'd like too seem them do DOT have a lower gold cost and too balance this maybe get rid of the healing idea altogether it's useless very early game waters role late game should be combing not mass healing causing problems as discussed previously.

Could you explain about the problem with the relationship between trees, waters, and earths? Also the early game problem.

1. Giving elementals some early game options seems decent, but it seems like you want the 4 base elements to be THE early game units and the combinations to be the mid-late game units, I don't see the need for that. Also, if you were the developer and you were to lower the gold costs of the 4 elements, you shouldn't leave them the way they are, imagine 300 gold airs running rampant.

2. Well, getting rid of the healing leaves no healing option for elementals besides the garrison. And my idea was to give elementals a good healing option besides the garrison. Also, what "problems" were discussed previously?

Quote from nutsophast

Could you explain about the problem with the relationship between trees, waters, and earths? Also the early game problem.

1. Giving elementals some early game options seems decent, but it seems like you want the 4 base elements to be THE early game units and the combinations to be the mid-late game units, I don't see the need for that. Also, if you were the developer and you were to lower the gold costs of the 4 elements, you shouldn't leave them the way they are, imagine 300 gold airs running rampant.

2. Well, getting rid of the healing leaves no healing option for elementals besides the garrison. And my idea was to give elementals a good healing option besides the garrison. Also, what "problems" were discussed previously?

Gladly I will explain what I think the problems are

1. The very early game is boring and it is difficult for ele to compete early game.
Mass earth is popular as they are good value for money you can stun lock and waste time. Then or at the same convert to get out of this phase and into others units which I will further explain.

2. Yes maybe it is a personal problem and it ties in with what Wyz was saying about Ele being TOO diffrent from the other two empires.

I don't like/don't find it viable. That a early game unit is a healing one that offers nothing on offence. Order has Archers with offer great DPS. What do Waters do? Freeze a unit? This could be good if you freeze a archer or a dead. But what's happens when their are more? If you have more than one water the healing becomes less valuable as you have many units all doing the same thing. It's not like Archers where you have decent DPS infact early game Ele lacks DPS in general.

3. Trees. This is more complex and I'm probably not the best person too talk about it. But basicly their too easy to Mass. Have too Much HP and then late game their three scorpions are meaningless. I love the concept of them their a nice touch to SW1 (Magikill) I actually thinks death root is the best things about them. Their OP early game and then UP late game it's crazy.

4. Let me expand on my idea to lower gold costs. By allowing fires and airs to enter the game earlier, easier and in greater numbers it wouldn't only give Ele more options early to early mid game. But also make Ele stronger early game.

Yes this effects combinations which is why I would increase Mana costs of Combinations. Combinations should be for mid game as the base elements in their own right currently get crushed late game anyway. It would also give Ele a better tier structure seen in the other empires.

Also scorch and blind gate have too go simple as IMO

@ Professor Snape (sorry XD)

1. I think boring is subjective. You're right when you said that it's difficult for elementals to compete for tower (I assume that's what you meant by "compete"). It would be nice to give elementals the option to defend or attack, but right now the only empire that really has that choice is order.

But elementals should still have options in the mid-game, so the limited early game start is not much of a problem for me.

However, I don't understand what you're trying to say by bringing up the earth start.

I say "should" because charrogs used to be an option but now they are useless without waters, so the only option is actually trees. Useless charrogs is one of my problems with elementals.

2. I think your problem with the water elemental stems from your thinking that the 4 base elements are strictly early game units. Don't compare waters to archers.

And what do you mean by "if you have more than one water the healing becomes less valuable as you have many units all doing the same thing"? I'm confused because water is the only unit that can heal in elementals. Am I misunderstanding something?

3. Trees may be easy to get but I don't think they have "too much" hp. If you get lots of swords you can cut them down easily. Another option is playing defense, trees can't get through spearton + wall + castle archer. So I think early-mid game trees can be handled.

If it's late game and chaos or order has managed to build up giants and late game stuff, the elementals (not just trees) are in deep shit. But it depends what they build so trees aren't always UP.

A little off topic but that is actually one of my biggest problems with elementals, being unable to defeat late game builds like a deathball.

4. I think that would make ele too strong early game. You're making fires and airs cheaper without changing the units themselves, which I don't think is needed.

Changing mana costs itself isn't bad, but it's directly related to the gold costs of the 4 elements.