Guiltless Shameless 2016 American Election Poll Thread

Started by: Hewitt | Replies: 17 | Views: 3,962

Hewitt

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Nov 10, 2016 5:36 AM #1466585

Let's pretend Trump hasn't won yet and we are still voting. Let's also pretend the world is America instead of just America and that all age ranges are allowed to vote regardless of limitation.

Cast your vote. Explain why. Keep it clean (nothing personal). The idea of the thread is to share opinions and ideas. Mild debate allowable.

If you think the Chat Thread already ironed this out, then feel free to ignore this thread.

The poll posed in this thread is if you had no ability to Abstain, but the option to vote the lesser parties---the 2%---is there. But you need a legit reason other than "It's not those 2 guys".

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Nov 10, 2016 5:45 AM #1466588

I appreciate the sentiment and the push to facilitate thoughtful discussion, but my real life and social media is already buzzing with thousands of debates and arguments about the election to the point where I don't want to expend my energy in my one place of peaceful respite.

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Nov 10, 2016 2:18 PM #1466606

Hillary, because I'd rather have a competent politician in charge of foreign and domestic policy than an unhinged, egomaniacal reality TV star. Note that when I say Hillary is competent I am speaking of her decades in public service, if you genuinely think a couple of scandals which have led to zero guilty convictions makes a person unfit for office and you still voted/supported Trump then you're a hypocrite, plain and simple. I realize she is the definition of establish politics but that's what the DNC served up for us and I'm willing to play the game to ensure progressive values remain a priority in our government going forward, Hillary could at least be trusted to do this.

That said, at this point in the game I am happy with the results. I hate Trump, I would never fucking vote for that man or support him as a politician or a human being. But a Hillary victory would have been awful for three reasons:

1) The GOP would obstruct every single thing Hillary attempts to accomplish in the same manner as Obama's presidency. Very little would actually substantially change, at least compared to Hillary's ambitions.

2) Trump received just shy of 60 million votes. What that represents is real and in many ways very ugly considering his platform's reliance on xenophobia, racism and sexism (I will cite examples for all of these if anyone seriously thinks they have an argument against any of these labels of his views at this point). If Hillary squeaked out a win by 1 or 2 percent then all of the frustration and anger that put Trump where he is today would have been (barely) swept under the rug for the next few years. Instead they have to look in the mirror and face the consequences of what they wanted. I don't expect him to single handedly ruin this country but I expect there to be clear downward trends in certain measures of economic activity that can be pointed to the policies of this new republican-run government.

3) A win for Hillary is a win for the DNC. What happened on election day was literally the absolute worst case scenario for the DNC. Good. Fuck them. They were so hell bent on Hillary that they tried to force an establishment candidate down everyone's throats when there was clear demand for a more populist candidate. Hillary did win the primary but she lost to Bernie in the key battleground states: Wisconsin, Michigan, Nebraska, New Hampshire, Kansas, he won them all. Hillary completely swept the south which ruined Bernie's chances but Trump absolutely destroyed her in the south in the actual election. The DNC needs to think long and hard about this election and make some serious changes going forward.

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Nov 10, 2016 2:25 PM #1466607

Quote from Exile
Hillary, because I'd rather have a competent politician in charge of foreign and domestic policy than an unhinged, egomaniacal reality TV star. Note that when I say Hillary is competent I am speaking of her decades in public service, if you genuinely think a couple of scandals which have led to zero guilty convictions makes a person unfit for office and you still voted/supported Trump then you're a hypocrite, plain and simple. I realize she is the definition of establish politics but that's what the DNC served up for us and I'm willing to play the game to ensure progressive values remain a priority in our government going forward, Hillary could at least be trusted to do this.

That said, at this point in the game I am happy with the results. I hate Trump, I would never fucking vote for that man or support him as a politician or a human being. But a Hillary victory would have been awful for three reasons:

1) The GOP would obstruct every single thing Hillary attempts to accomplish in the same manner as Obama's presidency. Very little would actually substantially change, at least compared to Hillary's ambitions.

2) Trump received just shy of 60 million votes. What that represents is real and in many ways very ugly considering his platform's reliance on xenophobia, racism and sexism (I will cite examples for all of these if anyone seriously thinks they have an argument against any of these labels of his views at this point). If Hillary squeaked out a win by 1 or 2 percent then all of the frustration and anger that put Trump where he is today would have been (barely) swept under the rug for the next few years. Instead they have to look in the mirror and face the consequences of what they wanted. I don't expect him to single handedly ruin this country but I expect there to be clear downward trends in certain measures of economic activity that can be pointed to the policies of this new republican-run government.

3) A win for Hillary is a win for the DNC. What happened on election day was literally the absolute worst case scenario for the DNC. Good. Fuck them. They were so hell bent on Hillary that they tried to force an establishment candidate down everyone's throats when there was clear demand for a more populist candidate. Hillary did win the primary but she lost to Bernie in the key battleground states: Wisconsin, Michigan, Nebraska, New Hampshire, Kansas, he won them all. Hillary completely swept the south which ruined Bernie's chances but Trump absolutely destroyed her in the south in the actual election. The DNC needs to think long and hard about this election and make some serious changes going forward.

tbh i only wanted trump to win bcuz putin and not getting bombed.

In all honesty, both of them are shit. Jill was the only good option.

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Nov 10, 2016 3:55 PM #1466617

why did you quote my entire post if you're not responding to a single part of it?

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Nov 11, 2016 2:13 AM #1466658

I voted for Trump, and would do so again. My reasoning is simply that I support most of his policies, and even more importantly, I was paying close attention to his "team."

Upon entering office the President is responsible for filling over 3000 government positions. The people who started orbiting around Trump were excellent choices, and would compensate for any nut-case incidents on his part.

Hewitt

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Nov 11, 2016 3:01 AM #1466665

Hey guys, I actually also made this thread because this appears to be a very srs topic that could go on for awhile. The intent was to transfer discussion from the generally light-hearted Chat thread but if the mods feel like having this while still discussing the issues in the Chat Thread makes this redundant, then feel free to bin.

Still, it is lovely hearing all these opinions.

Person McPerson

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Nov 11, 2016 5:45 AM #1466675

Yeah but by now almost everyone is firmly on one side. No matter what the opposing side says about their candidate, they will still root for him/her. By now it's hard to say if someone is lying or not when they speak about the elections. Everyone is just in an all out war to get each other. Like maybe if we talked about this way before the elections people would sway from trump to hillary or vice versa but by now, I'm pretty sure most people have firmly chosen a side to be on.

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Nov 11, 2016 6:21 AM #1466676

To be honest, I'm on the side of not caring whatsoever.

Arch-Angel
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Nov 11, 2016 8:53 AM #1466690

Look at Exile, the fucking Hillary lover. What a douche. lol

Without getting in a long argument or anything, I simply agreed more with Trump's policies, his character, how authentic he is, etc. The thing that I think I like the most about Trump is that I believe he wants to focus a lot of his attention on our internal issues whereas the president is usually mostly a foreign ambassador for the American people. I think it's something that this country needs more than just another career politician. I trust and believe that he is smart enough to realize that he is not an expert on all things, business and foreign policy, and I trust that he will surround himself with smart, experienced people who can offer him good council on decision-making. If you look at his demeanor over the last couple of days with his acceptance speech and his discussion with President Obama, that should help give people a bit of optimism that a Trump presidency won't be as bad as they thought, and we might actually get some real good from it. Obviously it's going to be hard for people who did not support him to embrace him, but this what happens in these campaigns. There's only one winner, and I think all of the people protesting and signing stupid petitions are in the wrong because while you did not support him for president, half of the country did and he has been elected. Even still, I blame the media for giving off this overly exaggerated impression of Trump that simply is not true, such as him being racist or sexist, wanting to deport immigrants, etc.

I don't vote, though. If I did, I would've written in for Harambe as well.

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Nov 11, 2016 1:29 PM #1466696

I'd go for the third party because if a third party candidate gets 5% of the votes, then the Federal Election Committee (FEC) can give them money to fund for their next campaign.

Exile
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Nov 11, 2016 2:16 PM #1466697

Quote from Arch-Angel
Even still, I blame the media for giving off this overly exaggerated impression of Trump that simply is not true, such as him being racist or sexist, wanting to deport immigrants, etc.

lmao

in case anyone reads this and believes it

'nobody respects women more than I do' - Trump (Click to Show)

[spoiler=totally not racist either]
Donald Trump violated the civil rights act by refusing to rent homes to black people.
http://www.nytimes.com/times-insider/2015/07/30/1973-meet-donald-trump/[/url]
http://new.www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/29/donald-trump-blacks-lawsuit_n_855553.html[/url]
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/12/15/doj-trump-s-early-businesses-blocked-blacks.html[/url]
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/09/07/the-death-and-life-of-atlantic-city[/url]

Trump continued to refuse to rent homes to black people three years after Justice Department ruling on the matter sides against Trump.
http://www.nytimes.com/1978/03/07/archives/trump-charged-with-rental-bias.html[/url]
http://www.nytimes.com/1983/10/16/realestate/for-starrett-city-an-integration-test.html?scp=4&sq=trump+discrimination&st=nyt&pagewanted=all[/url]

Trump ordered blacks to leave casino floor whenever him or wife arrives on property.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/09/07/the-death-and-life-of-atlantic-city[/url]

1991 book written by Trump Plaza Hotel & Casino President quotes Trump as saying:
“I’ve got black accountants at Trump Castle and Trump Plaza. Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day… . I think the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control.“
http://articles.philly.com/1991-05-10/news/25795529_1_trump-associates-trump-s-atlantic-city-donald-trump[/url]

Trump built a casino in black majority city and breaks promise to mayor about hiring locals, refrains to hire the minorities and opting to staff the casino with almost exclusively all Caucasian employees.
http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/money/trump-hit-race-suit-blacks-don-dealt-casino-jobs-article-1.726389[/url]

Trump was asked about replacing TSA's 'heebeejabis' with veterans, responded with:
"We're looking at it"
http://www.npr.org/2016/06/30/484229621/woman-asks-trump-about-replacing-tsas-heebejabis-with-veterans[/url]
http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-response-anti-muslim-tsa-worker-question-veterans-2016-7[/url]
http://time.com/4039658/trump-obama-muslim/[/url]

Trump responded to accusations of racism by hiring a former aid for Joseph McCarthy to sue the government for half a billion dollars.
http://www.salon.com/2011/04/28/donald_trump_discrimination_suit/[/url]

Trump kept books of Hitler Speeches by his bed.
http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trumps-ex-wife-once-said-he-kept-a-book-of-hitlers-speeches-by-his-bed-2015-8[/url]
http://forward.com/the-assimilator/318664/trump-and-hitler/[/url]
http://www.gq.com/story/donald-trump-hitler-speeches-book[/url]

Trump's campaign photoshopped a white model black.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trumps-people-almost-definitely-photoshopped-a-white-model-to-make-her-black_us_56d872d5e4b03a405677a680[/url]
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/03/donald-trump-photoshopped-models-to-be-african-american-in-his-online-store/[/url]

Trump refused to disavow support from the Klu Klux Klan multiple times during interview only to change his mind later on twitter.
http://www.dailywire.com/news/3739/disgusting-trump-reverses-himself-refuses-disavow-ben-shapiro[/url]
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-kkk-cnn-tapper-154053871.html[/url]
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/02/28/468455028/trump-wont-condemn-kkk-says-he-knows-nothing-about-white-supremacists[/url]
http://time.com/4240268/donald-trump-kkk-david-duke/[/url]
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/david-duke-trump-219777[/url]

The KKK endorses Trump.
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/04/a-lot-of-what-he-believes-we-believe-kkk-grand-imperial-wizard-endorses-trump/[/url]
http://www.snopes.com/2016/05/02/klan-leader-endorses-trump/[/url]
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2016/04/30/3774243/ku-klux-klan-imperial-wizard-endorses-donald-trump-for-president/[/url]

Trump retweets message from Pro-Hitler, white genocide conspiracy Twitter account.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-whitegenocidetm-retweet[/url]
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/430201/donald-trump-retweets-white-genocide-twitter-user[/url]
http://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-retweets-white-genocide-account-based-in-jewmerica/[/url]
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/donald-trump-retweets-neo-nazi-sympathizer-article-1.2506735[/url]

Analysis shows that 62% of the people Trump retweeted on the week of January 19th 2016 were white supremacist accounts.
http://www.getlittlebird.com/blog/data-62-of-the-people-donald-trump-rted-this-week-follow-multiple-white-supremacist-accounts[/url]

Trump picks famed white supremacist leader as delegate.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/05/donald-trump-white-nationalist-afp-delegate-california[/url]
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/45928_Donald_Trump_Picks_Well-Known_White_Nationalist_Leader_as_a_Delegate_in_California[/url]
http://www.nationalmemo.com/trump-picks-white-nationalist-leader-as-delegate/[/url]

Trump's son gives interview with Holocaust denying radio show host who wants to bring back slavery.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Political_Cesspool#Donald_Trump_Jr._interview[/url]
http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-gop-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/03/donald-trump-son-pr

Alphaeus
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Nov 11, 2016 2:33 PM #1466699

Exile.

How many times do I have to tell you not to believe something just because you read it and someone who claims to be "professional" wrote it?

Secondly, no one ever said Trump wasn't a bit over-sexed in his younger days -- I mean, anyone who get's on the front page of Playboy magazine got there for a reason. That doesn't make him a sexual criminal. Besides, let's not forget that in electing Hillary we were giving Ole Billy another go in the white house too. Equal standing there, IMO (with Billy a bit on the worse side of things).

Racist? Come now, statement 1 I made applies here also. Dr. Carson is his pick for two Secretary positions (Education and one other one that I suddenly forget). There's photos of him with the "Hispanics for Trump" organization. Etc.

If you go into politics, guess what, your officials are going to be political. WOAH, NEWS FLASH. Fact of the matter is that most of the people he has put on the list so far are simply great picks. In other words, they have a great track record of actually getting things done. Additionally, he has put several non-political people into high-places, such as Secretary of Education, Secretary of Treasury, etc.

As Person said, everyone here is on their side already. I know you, Exile, will never change your opinion, just as I won't change mine. Arguing this seems a bit of a moot point.

Exile
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Nov 11, 2016 2:47 PM #1466701

Quote from Alphaeus
How many times do I have to tell you not to believe something just because you read it and someone who claims to be "professional" wrote it?

This is coming from the guy who was insistent that Comey testified under oath that Clinton lied to the FBI about her e-mail server. I basically googled that phrase and was able to quickly find sources refuting that. So what's your vetting process for verifying this sort of stuff? You're preaching to the choir either way.

I'm not claiming that every single one of those links is 100% verified information but I think to blame the issue on the media for exaggerating his behavior is absolutely ridiculous. Especially in reference to his sexual misconduct and statements. I don't really care if you're the kind of person to not give a shit about that, or if you're able to just tune out of it because he's on your team and your team has to win no matter what, but don't stick your head in the sand and lie to yourself or others that the man has a history that points to him respecting women or minorities.

Also I'm not here to try to turn republicans into democrats or conservatives into liberals, I'm just voicing my opinion and responding to others. I've gone through 10 years worth of religious debates on this site, again you're preaching to the choir here, my motivation here isn't to convert people.

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Nov 11, 2016 3:06 PM #1466702

Lord knows, google is obviously the best way to find truth.

I've said before I live just outside Washington. I'm no high-and-mighty person by any means, but still -- I know people who work in places like the Pentagon, White House, various Departments, etc. They talk, and you hear the inside stories that circulate around the center of this fun-house we call our D.C.

Again, I did NOT say he has never done anything sexual that was entirely inappropriate. My contention is just that 1) Most of this occurred during his younger years as a private citizen, and 2) the viable issues (whether when he was older or younger) were vastly exaggerated.

"Exaggeration" requires that there is, in fact, something to exaggerate in the first place. With Trump, obviously this is true -- that doesn't change the fact that it is most certainly exaggerated. Take all those women who "spoke out" and now then entirely vanished from the public eye. Maybe he did something, maybe he didn't. The fact that they suddenly decide to speak up now, but never in an actual lawsuit case, and then suddenly also decide to entirely fall off the media screen seems a bit too coincidental.

My vetting process, generally, is that direct information trumps (yes, that is a coincidental use of the word) information that has been trickle fed through the media. NatGeo did a documentary on the beginning of big newspapers under people like Pulitzer during the late 1800s. Even way back then they were twisting news, like with the "Remember the Maine" incident, as well as hordes of other Spanish-American War related materials. Why? Because they wanted to sell papers, not actually inform readers.

Media is a business of selling their product, just like any other business. And just like any other business, they will do whatever is necessary to make the public want their product. Their product is NEWS, not information. Hence why you can watch your local nightly news and see an endless line of crimes (if you happen to live near a city) with only short blurbs about the "good" things -- crimes sell, so they cover them.

Quote from Exile
I don't really care if you're the kind of person to not give a shit about that, or if you're able to just tune out of it because he's on your team and your team has to win no matter what, but don't stick your head in the sand and lie to yourself or others that the man has a history that points to him respecting women or minorities.

I would not recommend tossing around caustic comments that are based at least to some level upon opinion. If you don't care, then respond to my discussion, not to my personal intellect or character. This is far from an accurate description of me, and I do not appreciate personal insults being mixed into a calm debate. For someone claiming "experience" that is highly unrefined of you -- besides, it is useless and fails entirely to further your point.