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Vorpal
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Apr 5, 2017 4:50 AM #1478490
Quote from Alphaeus
Awesome man. I mean, that sounds fucking nuts. Also, Kotor itself is awesome. I’ve got a friend who plays it…might have to jump in a bit.

As to DnD, I’ve gotten into a couple things, and am quite happy. I’ve been doing well with my first non-gestalt char. Correction…I’ve not just been doing well, I’ve been 100% trolling the DM just by my existence. For this char, I went with the Unbodied race, which doesn’t get much love because of the LA +4 tacked onto it. Thing is, Unbodied get the absolute best stuff of being incorporeal without ANY of the downsides from Ghosts. And…in addition to all of their impressive powers, Unbodied come automatically with four effective manifester levels in Psion Telepath. So, we were doing a point-assign system, which works well. Since I have no strength stat, the DM allowed me to redistribute the base points (the basic 8 before point-buy) into my other five stats. Long story short, I’ve turned into a Charisma dump – at ECL 12 I have 50 Charisma.

Now…I’ve been able to stack abilities, skills, equipment, and play style to become the most insane manipulative bastard you ever saw…but one who can also kick ass. I have an incorporal touch attack that ignores all armor and whatnot. Seems week…except I got a ring that allows me to transfer my charisma to all touch attacks. That huge bonus from 50 char is now tagged onto my unstoppable attack. I also have maxxed diplomacy and intimidate, to the point that I pretty much can’t fail any check I’d normally encounter with those. Now…remember I’m a Psion Telepath (I chose that as my class as well…for obvious reasons since the racial manifester lvls stack according to the SRD). I’ve loaded myself with all those mind-warping powers suitable for a manipulative bastard. But wait, that’s not all. I can assume the form of any small, medium, or large creature. ANY creature of three different sizes. I have racial telepathy to 100ft, so conversing is rarely a problem (but I’ve also learned other languages via powers/skills). Now…I have a ring that allows me to manifest myself physically at will. Essentially, I can assume ANY form I please, then manifest physically as that form. I have the ultimate disguise. Like, even the DM has had to acknowledge that the disguise is pretty much fool proof (I have racial immunity to divination and similar abilities – they cannot reveal my true race). You get where THAT is going…my best achievement so far has been passing myself off (successfully) as a female fishnet-wearing kobold zombie to a Dark Lord. Well, that or convincing an orphaned prince and his entire council that I am actually his resurrected father, the king.

Now…you might ask about the ass kicking. Well, aside from the touch attack (where I have irked the DM by saying I go incorporeal and fly up to the fang dragon and poke it to death….which I successfully did), I have telekinesis. I have Telekinetic Force as a racial SU, which means it costs me no psion points and I get unlimited use. Besides that, however, I took Expanded Knowledge and learned Telekinetic Thrust…which allows me to fling things (or creatures) in combat. So far the best I’ve done is successfully hurl 1 ton+ boulders at oncoming ogres, as well as launching my friends at opponents. Tossing around my enemies themselves is also nice. Pretty much I can do well over 10d6 damage with these objects consistently (or a lot more if I juice it for things like the huge boulders), as well as possess the ability to use colossal+ (or larger) size weps, which is awesome.

Now, additionally, I have a psionic ability that appears to be a relatively weak 1st level power (I think it’s mind thrust or something of the like). Deals 1d10 damage. Simple…except I can augment it. In one battle, I jacked that bitch up to 50d6. IN THE MIND, which means no armor, no dodge…nothing except one will save that you will fail because my key ability (Charisma) is so high you cannot will save against any of my powers successfully.

And don’t forget I’m doing all that while being incorporeal, so you 90% of my enemies can’t do shit to me, and out of that 10% I have a high chance of still not being hit. Additionally, on TOP of incorporeal immunities I have racial immunities. And I get to fly everywhere…including through things. And I’m not a Ghost, so you can’t turn or dispel me like undead or magical creatures.

And I’m still ECL 12.

Everyone likes me in the game, though, and the DM is still cool with things because I’m kinda a two trick act (either I convice/intimidate/bluff the living daylights out of you, or I smash/mindblow/poke the living daylights out of you). So, the DM has made sure a lot of our quests and whatnot (the entire campaign is 3.5e, but based/heavily inspired by the Ravenloft horror setting from AD&D) involved things where my powers aren’t of much use (except throwing around my party members…that always seems to come in handy).

Yeah, I’m having fun. Also, I’ve started learning Pathfinder. I do agree, I like it a lot. TBH, I see learning 3.5e and Pathfinder as the perfect combination since they are mostly combatable with one another, so you can bring things across from one or the other if you see fit. 3.5e just has SOOOO much stuff that the variety is awesome, but I will say when you look at the overall bones (like the classes themselves), Pathfinder doesn’t need as much stuff because the root material itself is better. Once I learn pathfinder, I plan to take on 5e, since that is fairly popular and I know some people who want to do that with me. (And before you worry about me learning too much, just remember I’m a perfectionist who has OCD tendencies, so this ain’t nothin’ :P ).


Yeah Pathfinder is a game with superior game balance and design decisions based off of what gamers learned from D&D 3.5
Of course, it's not so easy to play something totally busted in Pathfinder because of this so for some people it's less fun. But that's what makes it even more fun for me. I also like how pathfinder seemed to centralize the balance between the classes to keep certain classes from being more busted than other classes.
Like in 3.5 the monk didn't even come close to how good the fighter was.
That said I like your character, I hope the dungeon master is prepared for some serious shenanigans.

The roleplaying game we're gonna do on my end is in person, but we'll only be able to start with 2 players at first. I know the other player and the DM personally though. So, I decided I didn't want to use Xalix yet, he's something I've been working on in my head for a while now and think he could use a little more time to brew.
But I still ended up rolling an archer character...



Rok-Styz Goblin Sniper

Standing about 3'5 and barely weighing as much as a bail of hay, Rok-Styz is a bit of a freak of a goblin. A needle ridden grimmace bridges between two abnormally large ears colored by pale skin constantly in flux with its surroundings. His penetrating blood red eyes appear to gaze out from somewhere behind himself filling you with a sense of depth not normally exuded by goblins.
Even among Goblinoids Rok-Styz is unbelievably light footed, and immensely talented with bow and arrow something he must rely on because of his small stature. Goblin or not, Rok-Styz is a genius in his own right and posesses wisdom far beyond normal individuals. This may not be apparant to others at first as he hasn't yet mastered the non-goblin languages and because goblins are often looked down upon.

He's known to confuse words like he, her, him and words like I, me, am. He doesn't understand why he can't just use his name Rok-Styz, everyone will know what he means anyways. Also the word 'Rok' is an honorific from his goblin tribe given to the leader of the tribe, loosely meaning 'highest' specifically among goblins.

So when Rok-Styz says he did something he believes is worthy of being commended he will refer to himself as 'Rok-Styz' but if he's confessing to having done something shameful, he may use the words 'I' or 'me' instead. This is also why he refers to himself as 'Rok-Styz' in the present, but when he's talking about himself in past tense he refers to himself simply as 'Styz.' He's no fool, but he does get languages a bit confused some times.

"Rok-Styz know not normal Goblin, Rok-Styz' skin changes, great big hearers, Rok-Styz see more and think more than other Goblins too.

Out of all of Goblins, Styz sneakiest, Styz' bow strike truest. That is why Styz knew one day would become 'Rok' highest among Goblins. Old Rok grow lazy and weak, other Goblins agreed Styz should become Rok. So one day tribe eldars pointed at 'Ukurok' the very highest mountain, they tell Styz 'travel to highest point of highest peak of Ukurok and return with big lava stone' and 'Only then Styz become Rok.' Styz accepted the challenge, so whole tribe come see off Styz silently, doubting Styz, but after a few days and nights Styz did travel to highest point of Ukurok and Styz did drag back hugest lava stone Styz could.

Only problem, when Styz return home, Goblins gone...none to greet new Rok-Styz..."


Rok-Styz is still confused about what happened the day he returned home, there was no evidence of his tribe gathering belongings to leave and no message warning him...they were just, gone. It's was as if they had all dropped what they were doing and disappeared. He's unsure if he was decieved into being left behind or if he should be searching for them, because of this he starts the game feeling largely aimless and uncertain about his destiny.

But Styz really did become Rok that day, or at least he honestly believes that in his heart. He in his own mind is the greatest goblin from his tribe which might make him the greatest goblin of all. A point he's willing to argue with any other goblin he comes across, and is willing to kill to make. Which may sort of reflect his insecurity on the matter.


Basically I'm explaining how a Goblin would be travelling alone until the eventual ship wreck that brings the party together takes place. He would be stowed away to steal food on a ship that he had mistaken as some sort of strange 'water shack.' Having never seen a ship before and not realizing it was a thing that could move. While hiding he got tired and decided to take a nap, but before he could make off with his delicious loot the ship was already surrounded by water as far as the eye can see, so he remained in hiding until the wreck happened. That's where the game will begin.

What do you think?
Alphaeus
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Apr 5, 2017 5:38 PM #1478521
I like the build, although the low strength/char aren't great choices. Did you do rolls or stat-buy? Seems to me that you like high-dex builds.

Also, just found out I won't be able to keep doing shenanigans with my telepath Unbodied. The DM has to go in for chemo therapy. :(

I'll keep the char around, though. If I get a chance to use them, I'll recycle them, which will be easy since this char is pretty much straight SRD except for a few items.
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Apr 5, 2017 9:41 PM #1478537
Quote from Alphaeus
I like the build, although the low strength/char aren't great choices. Did you do rolls or stat-buy? Seems to me that you like high-dex builds.

Also, just found out I won't be able to keep doing shenanigans with my telepath Unbodied. The DM has to go in for chemo therapy. :(

I'll keep the char around, though. If I get a chance to use them, I'll recycle them, which will be easy since this char is pretty much straight SRD except for a few items.


See here's the thing. I like your character and I respect that you're just now getting into this for the first time.
But the goal isn't to make as powerful of a character as possible, even though I am about optimization. My main focus has been making a character that will be interesting for me to play, because I've done all the normal stuff. So I feel like the DM isn't wrong in reigning your character back a bit.

Sometimes the most powerful characters are the most boring, like what saitama says in one punch man. "being overwhelmingly strong is boring"
After a few rounds of having my power fantasy fluffed I'll inevitably desire more.

A goblin that isn't strictly evil, that's also using the most tactical form of archery, is a challenge. It's a challenge in gameplay and in roleplaying, it's something I've never done before. I'm going to have to speak a certain way and interact in a world biased against my character.

I rolled heroic, 'roll 2d6 add 6' like my dungeon master insisted and got some balanced stats. But I also rolled 18, 17, 17, 12, 12, 11. Yeah you know what, he's not flawless but he also shouldn't be. I selected this stat line specifically because I intended the character to be specialized rather than across the board balanced.

Not only are his flaws going to make him more interesting, they also make sense to the character too. If the average is 10 and goblins get a minus 2 than the average strength of a goblin is 8, which makes sense because goblins are smaller frailer creatures. My goblin hero shouldn't be physically imposing, it wouldn't make any sense for my archer goblin to have a high strength. Just like how it wouldn't make any sense if he was an extremely gifted linguist with a high charisma. That's why I dumped these stats, and because my character is largely not going to use them.
Don't you agree?

Edit: Besides it's not like my character has no advantages, I've got a freakin 20 stealth at level 1. Which is insane for pathfinder. Non-strength characters aren't inherently not good.
Alphaeus
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Apr 6, 2017 6:24 PM #1478589
True, you're quite right. (Also, the DM isn't reigning me in...they legit have Chemo appointments and shut down the entire campaign). While my char was powerful, the truth is that I stat-dumped all my other stats, which would have made for very interesting game play (unwise, unintelligent, low reflex, but freakishly charismatic). That said, yes, I understand your point. This isn't a video game -- just like every RP, this is as much (if not moreso) about the story than the "game" side.

That said, since I DON'T have use for that, I've joined up (well, I got picked out of the applicants for) a pathfinder campaign. It's my first one, so this will be interesting. I chose one that is a low-magic setting (magic is real and common, but no pure-caster classes allowed) to make life easier. It's set in an alternate history late 1700s France, and we're locked inside a city that is beset by the Plague. I'm guessing it will turn out that it isn't actually the plague, considering the campaign is tagged as adventure and intrigue...but also as horror.

Since humans are the only races allowed, that's that. I've gone with Swashbuckler, and am doing the Mysterious Avenger archetype. It's 20 point buy (although he's doing 1-to-1 buy instead of the stilted buy), so stats are a bit on the low side. I've gone pure Dex and Charisma pretty much (I put wis, con, and int up to 12 just to get the +1 bonus).

I'm looking forward to doing this role because while it is optimized (Dex for rogue-like play with the class weapon finesse, and Char for all the swashbuckler's panache and deeds), it also has weaknesses I'll have to work around (like no str bonus). What's really cool is that for this archetype I have to have a "persona" that I assume and use, as well as playing heavily on the intrigue side. It's going to be my first non-caster/non-psionics char, and I'm looking forward to it. I'm going low on the ranged weps as well (I have a few thrown ones, but I don't want to use a bow...this dude is all about his whip and rapier), so this will be a cool challenge to play.
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Apr 6, 2017 6:54 PM #1478591
Quote from Alphaeus
True, you're quite right. (Also, the DM isn't reigning me in...they legit have Chemo appointments and shut down the entire campaign). While my char was powerful, the truth is that I stat-dumped all my other stats, which would have made for very interesting game play (unwise, unintelligent, low reflex, but freakishly charismatic). That said, yes, I understand your point. This isn't a video game -- just like every RP, this is as much (if not moreso) about the story than the "game" side.

That said, since I DON'T have use for that, I've joined up (well, I got picked out of the applicants for) a pathfinder campaign. It's my first one, so this will be interesting. I chose one that is a low-magic setting (magic is real and common, but no pure-caster classes allowed) to make life easier. It's set in an alternate history late 1700s France, and we're locked inside a city that is beset by the Plague. I'm guessing it will turn out that it isn't actually the plague, considering the campaign is tagged as adventure and intrigue...but also as horror.

Since humans are the only races allowed, that's that. I've gone with Swashbuckler, and am doing the Mysterious Avenger archetype. It's 20 point buy (although he's doing 1-to-1 buy instead of the stilted buy), so stats are a bit on the low side. I've gone pure Dex and Charisma pretty much (I put wis, con, and int up to 12 just to get the +1 bonus).

I'm looking forward to doing this role because while it is optimized (Dex for rogue-like play with the class weapon finesse, and Char for all the swashbuckler's panache and deeds), it also has weaknesses I'll have to work around (like no str bonus). What's really cool is that for this archetype I have to have a "persona" that I assume and use, as well as playing heavily on the intrigue side. It's going to be my first non-caster/non-psionics char, and I'm looking forward to it. I'm going low on the ranged weps as well (I have a few thrown ones, but I don't want to use a bow...this dude is all about his whip and rapier), so this will be a cool challenge to play.

D= too bad about your old dungeon master....I thought you meant chemo in the funny sense. My irl friends and I say we got cancer and need chemo all the time ironically, usually when playing league of legends. But I digress.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/swashbuckler/
Looking at the Swashbuckler now, I'm surprised you start with a decent base attack bonus and weapon finesse that's gonna be quite nice if you can get your dex 16-20. Naturally having a low strength means you're not gonna wrack up bonus damage with your melee attacks, but the dexterity will boost your armor class so you should still be pretty effective.

I'm also surprised they're giving you a d10 hit dice, but then again they wouldn't want you to be too squishy. Only getting 4+int skill points is a fair trade off for that survivability. And of course Panache is a super interesting and fun class feature.

Too bad the only races allowed are human though...I get why if the setting is 1700's france, but also magic isn't totally historically accurate I imagine. You'd think he'd allow dhampir or fetchling at least, races that are mostly human. Not that human is a bad race, it's just the whole shoe horning everyone into it that confuses me.

As a human you're gonna get a bonus feat however and you wont need to use it on weapon finesse, you could grab improved initiative or something gangster like that.
I really like your idea, do you mind if I see the character sheet?
Alphaeus
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Apr 6, 2017 9:27 PM #1478596
David Alan Stewart

Swashbuckler, Mysterious Avenger Archetype

Posting this here just in case.

We're starting with only 20 point buy (although at a 1-to-1, so that's good) and 300 gold (locked in a plague city, so you don't have all ya moneys, and we're supposed to be more average) at lvl 4. We do get Automatic Bonus Progression, though, and treat that progression as if we are 2 lvls higher (at lvl 4 I have lvl 6 ABP benefits).

Now, that said, I love the swashbuckler because it looks all nice and innocent but packs a punch (and I'm ONLY listing the stuff I have at lvl 4 here).

For example...Deeds. I get panache points equal to my Char mod each day, and can regain those used throughout the day. Here's the awesome thing -- many of the best deeds are passives, requiring I have 1 panache in reserve to remain active (and usually that I'm using one of my class weps, in this case whip or rapier). One of the best of these deeds is the Precise Strike (Ex): I get to add my Swashbuckler lvl to my weapon damage. So, as a passive, I'm already getting a rather great damage bonus. Another passive: free use of Intimidate on my opponents as a swift action during combat when I make a hit. Another? I get +2 bonus on initiative checks, and if I have quick draw I can draw a wep during this initiative check for free.

Then there is the Avenger's Finesse...I have weapon finesse for both my whip and my rapier. That means I can effectively dump str without having to worry about the damage drop. Oh, and if you're worried about the CMB, I have Agile Movements feat that tosses my Dex bonus over to that as well. With light gear anyway, str is a no-need for me pretty much.

Now, I also get this nice defense. Looks good...but there's more. I have Charmed Life and Greater Charmed life. This means that my second huge stat (Char) can have its mod added to saving throws or to my AC up to six times a day.

Don't forget with the Automatic Bonus Progression I'm getting bonuses to my weps and armor too, as well as to my stats, AC, and saves.

This is just at lvl 4 in a highly limited game.



For Swashbuckler I would definitely always go with Mysterious Avenger, if only for that lovely Avenger's Finesse and Greater Charmed Life (the stat-dump benefits are great). If not, just go normal Swashbuckler because the other archetypes are lousy once you study them (you trade away great class things for interesting but mediocre returns). I think the biggest strength for the Swashbuckler is definitely the deeds, since so many awesome ones are just passives that will stay active as long as you have 1 panache point (and since you start the day with these for free, you can guarantee that you can keep at least one). I mean, at lvl 11 you get a passive deed that grants you Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, and Improved Uncanny Dodge just like the rogue (with your swashbuckler levels counting as rogue levels). Just from a PASSIVE. Another lvl 11 passive grants you immunities to different attacks. I mean...these are awesome.

Overall, as long as you can min/max with charisma and dex, you're pretty much a match for a UC Rogue. Plus there are special Panache feats you can take -- like one that allows you to turn a cape/cloak/anything closely resembling that (stated to include curtains and table clothes, open to DM discretion) and use it as an ACTUAL buckler...AND be able to use it to entangle your enemy.

I think for a true non-caster this is a great class. Also, just taking 3 lvls in it would be a great multiclass, IMO.

Anyhow, that's that. Time to go conquer the world. XD
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