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Changes to the Writer's Lounge Forum.

Started by: Devour | Replies: 26 | Views: 2,870

Crank
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Nov 15, 2017 6:01 AM #1485650
Academy is about learning, Friday Funks are about encouraging development, experimental stories are about seeing how something feels/how you write something, all of which seem to be places where you're asking for help or trying to spin your wheels. I stand by their going together, otherwise, the academy sounds like a singular thread, which, if so, wouldn't need it's own area. Suppose there aren't enough games at the moment, just the interviews. We can get there when we get there. If there do become enough threads, maybe the academy can branch out, but not yet in my book. Academy feels like the place you'd post if you specifically wanted feedback on something. I mean, you got graded on your homework in school, didn't you?

A lot of what you're saying is mod heavy. We would need to be reeeeeeally active to warrant a council composed of that many mods. Bots and few exceptions aside, we were doing alright laissez faire. Not saying things couldn't have been better, just that we don't need to go all police state with the numbers. Sure, a more active sectional mod would be cool, but we don't need a rainbow right now, and I really don't think rovers should have their own color. If you're active, people will recognise it regardless.

Universe and events don't need to be separate until there are more events. There have been what, 10 total?

Also, about having someone have to do CnC:

I've been around long enough that I felt like I was that guy, and trust me when I say that that weight is a bitch, and reeeally doesn't make you want to do it. Honestly, I'd tune it down 1 month. Maybe recognize without forcing commitment, but invite for a stint when they're showing initiative. Elections may imply not good enough, and not good enough walks a slippy slope to tell people to shut up. A solid chunk of the people in my link said that they didn't comment because they didn't think their opinions were good enough, and I really don't want to encourage that type of thinking. I also don't think someone should be assigned the cringe worthy people. Like, if that was Mike's job and then Mike commented on your story...

I also stand by my clay analogy. You put it in the oven when it's ready, but you build until then. We have molding to do and pieces to make.

EDIT: Kinda ironic that Xate's story is still sitting there untouched.

EDIT II: With competitions, 3 or 4 may work if it's for a single story, but things like tournaments I don't think we should do that often. Maybe one or two, otherwise it'll get desaturated
Alphaeus
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Nov 15, 2017 9:49 PM #1485667
@Crank:

1) The point of the Academy is to be Academic. This isn't gradeschool where we want people posting everything they do on the walls. This is to be very ordered and refined. No offense, Crank, but you're seeing the Academy that's been in existence for all of...what, four days?...and thinking that this somehow is the end product. Vern and I have not been working on this concept for essentially a year to just be a single thread, I can tell you that much. I mean, I understand what you're saying, but if you want to get something like that going then I'd prefer it to be separate. As Founder of the Academy (with the support of the Dean), I decline your suggestion :P.

2) Nothing is mod-heavy. These aren't mods, Crank. These are appointed people. People who do jobs. Mods have technical responsibilities in addition to their people skills. These Rovers/Advisors are just working with people only. I can also list a dozen WL members off the top of my head that would deeply disagree with the "doing alright laissez faire" bit. I understand you happen to like it this way, but most of the rest of us do not. At least those of us that actually do things around here regularly and actively.

3) Rovers having their own color or not is a Dvor decision. I personally thought of them as appointed members, but tbh I think having them be "mini-mods" isn't a bad idea. Gives them an official standing.

4) You're right about the Universe and Events, at least temporarily.

5) Well, Crank, if you decide you don't want to do things, the you just quit on the next go-around of being a Rover. No one makes you be re-elected in this structure. Tuning it down to one month is possible, but it really just messes up the flow of actually having people responsible. A 2-3 month schedule (yes, 2 month would be an option) is more functional and prevents having elections every few weeks and gives enough time for Rovers to actually do their job.

6) Crank, this is something I also know has been recurring disagreements. Saying someone or something isn't "good enough" is NOT a cardinal sin. You show me someone who wasn't told they weren't good enough and I'll show you someone who STILL isn't good enough. If you don't set goals and standards, you have people doing whatever the fuck they please and being stagnant. Oh, wait, you mean the current situation in the WL? Yeah. Why don't we invite DoomsDruid to bring back the god-tier controls-everything edgefuck character. The one everyone literally swore not to touch with a ten foot pole. That was good enough, right? Of course not. Just because you weren't appointed doesn't mean you can't CnC, just that you don't HAVE to. You literally just said having too was a pain and would prefer to NOT force commitment, yet then indicate that allowing commitment would somehow circle back around and make people not committed...aka, you're logic here is flawed. Don't believe me? Look at the current mass of quality and consistent CnC we have. Yes, that was extremely sarcastic. Essentially 80% of all CnC of quality (I'm being REALLY lenient there) of late has been given by Vern and I, with everyone else tossing in combined for that remaining percent. This shouldn't be that way, because other people can and would do it.

7) A solid chunk of the people in your link were also using that line as a good excuse. As an admin of people IRL I can tell you that's in the international top ten excuses list for not doing things, and that when you look at it 90% of the people who said that didn't take the time to form an opinion or do some work in the first place to see if it was good enough or not. I mean, that's a bit abrasive truth there, but hard love is hard love. We're stuck in the same rut here for years because of this mentality, so with the chance to revamp I want us to look ahead to the future and new horizons, not tag stuff from a three year old thread that -- guess what -- never changed jack shit around here.

8) No one person is assigned the cringe worthy folk. I never said that. ALL of the Rovers get to do that wonderful job. And, here's the gig -- if that's too untouchable for you (or you're a dick about it), and you're too unreliable, then guess what? You aren't going to be a Rover ;). Rovers by default have to be people that are reliable, but also genuinely enjoy helping people -- even the hard-to-like ones. And, further, they have to actually be good at it.

9) This isn't a work of art here at the WL, though (which, like I said, isn't quite how clay works anyway, but whatever). This is a functional systematic framework for interpersonal relations and skill development. It needs to be handled like a system, like a framework, etc. I learned a long time ago that if you don't do the shit you plan to do NOW, and say you'll do it later, it never gets done because everyone gets comfortable with the half-way stage and doesn't want to change again. People don't like change, so when you have the chance use it before you get locked up in a rut again.

10) Well, whatever. I think SP itself usually has about 3-4 a year for animation, so I'm mirroring that for the Official Competitions.
Crank
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Nov 15, 2017 10:33 PM #1485669
Essentially 80% of all CnC of quality (I'm being REALLY lenient there) of late has been given by Vern and I

I beg your pardon? (Click to Show)

I'll give you characters, but don't give me that.
Alphaeus
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Nov 16, 2017 12:24 AM #1485672
@Crank:

A Screenshot of threads isn't helpful. Just went through those, and it's about 50-50 Vern/me and you on those (also, maybe it's just Aquila, Vern, and I, but you seem to totally avoid CnCing any senior members and just do the newbies, whereas Vern and I do the opposite). Vern and I are essentially the only ones offering regular material CnC on profiles. SO, with 50 (or, to be gracious towards you and the horde of newbie battles Vern skipped and I wasn't here for, 40) percent of the battle CnC and almost all of the profile/character CnC, that would total to around 80%.
Crank
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Nov 16, 2017 12:50 AM #1485673
It's weird to me that skipping newbie battles seems to be a non issue to you. We're going to have fundamentally different opinions on characters (I think people are more inclined to fight with what they've built. If you don't like them, don't battle them, whereas you and Vern would rather iron them out before testing them. Sure, if something sounds broken pointers are fine, but other than that, go ahead). If you want to build a community, you need to support the new people, and the new people who are actually going to stick around are the ones who are writing stories. If only people who have been around for a while get CnC and first fights are ignored, people are less inclined to stay. And yeah, I CnC older members much less, because a lot of the time when it feels like I'm flying solo with the new crew, it's those members who could help, but don't. To be blunt, I don't expect to see anything other than the character page of a new wRHG, and most of those new members do fade away, so I don't view it as worth the time commitment. When they post a battle, awesome, they might be one of the ones to stick around.

And for the record: (Click to Show)
Alphaeus
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Nov 16, 2017 1:02 AM #1485674
I'm not brushing it off, Crank -- Hell, I'm the one here fighting for Rovers to exist (of which I intend to be one). I'm just stating the way things are. If you want to be picky about things, 90+% of all substantial CnC on this site is done by Crank, Vern, and Alphaeus. Which is true.

That's the point I was trying to make, and I'm sorry I didn't include you in that original statement. Also, a lousy char = lousy story. I'd rather fix these things before they pop out Twilight fandom level stuff, thank you. You can have the best plot and writing skill ever and still fail if the character makes you want to scream and murder a cow.
PitchEnder
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Nov 16, 2017 2:58 AM #1485675
Quote from Alphaeus
90+% of all substantial CnC on this site is done by Crank, Vern, and Alphaeus


You DARE speak about yourself in the third person?!
Alphaeus
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Nov 16, 2017 6:24 AM #1485677
Quote from PitchEnder
You DARE speak about yourself in the third person?!


May a goat fart on your face.
Sacred
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Nov 16, 2017 10:55 PM #1485711
Well, it seems like there's a boatload of things we could do to improve this section. And a majority of the suggestions I'm reading are pretty dang good. But I think we all know that reconstruction like this usually happens one big step at a time.

Right now it looks like a lot of people agree that the Writer's Lounge format could use a touch-up. Currently, it segments to wRHG and OLit, with wRHG having sub-categories mirroring that of RHG (for the most part.) This seems a little tilted. I think we can all agree that anything not wRHG-related being lumped into one sub-forum is gonna cause a mess. If we make the Lounge easier to navigate and make everyone's works easier to distribute, I think that would be a great start. Alphaeus' suggestion of formatting is a really good template I think we can go off of, and add some ideas from there.

Also, I love this idea of an "Academy." To be honest, I may not be active on here but it's something I'm genuinely interested in and would love to learn more about. Maybe even contribute if I'm feeling up to it. But like I said, one thing at a time.
SaulMurphy
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Nov 20, 2017 11:51 AM #1485795
Oooo, I did so enjoy that little tumble between Alphie and Crankuba.

As someone who literally comes and goes (more going than coming) I did feel the wRHG was a bit overwhelming. Even that Monster Mix event, the character I got was essentially a "monster wRHG" and I suspect its creator expected me to fight it, whereby my original intent was to write some horror or something. As fun as wRHG was for me (only done 4 battles in the last 5 years) I am more in the market for proper writing challenges or events or roleplays or anything that doesn't stretch my thesaurus for synonyms of "punch".

I will come and go and I may not exactly be a newbie but I am not really a senior member either, I would like to come in, see some nice writing challenge based on something interesting (for example: a horror story about an albatross and a red eyed chicken; or a comedy tale about Freddie Kruger trying to order McDonalds through a drive-thru). Now some of you could argue that I have just described Friday Funk, and to some extent I did, but I love proving myself against others, thus I enjoyed the wRHG but if we had normal non-wRHG competitions whereby it isn't simply 1v1 but 8 writers together trying to win the "Christmas Gone Wrong - OLit Story Competition", I would definitely want to test my normal tale-writing prowess.

That's my 5 cents. Take it or leave it.
Devour
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Nov 20, 2017 8:49 PM #1485804
I agree that I'd love to have non-wRHG contests. wRHG is nice and all, but fights are less than 10% of what you can do with writing.

As far as I know, OLit contests of unofficial and official varieties are basically agreed upon by all sides, so I may add a subforum for those hella soon. Though Im unsure about the details for who'll run contests and such for now
Alphaeus
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Nov 20, 2017 11:18 PM #1485809
Quote from Devour
Though Im unsure about the details for who'll run contests and such for now


See, this is why I support the idea of Rovers. I think they have the potential to fill TONS of roles.
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