Quote from Myself

A winrar is you, good sir.

Stating the obvious does not = win, it = ....well...stating the damn obvious.

Quote from Schwa

>_>

Personally I think the world would be a better place with no religion if we all had morals reflection those taught in the bible, but without having to rely on a supernatural deity to enforce those.

think about it. why do you need to rely on that deity? god has never forced you to use his system of morals, so you've really been doing it yourself all along.

the bible has too much hate for me to consider it a good source of morality. the holier-than-thou attitude is permanently ingrained in christianity. why not do whatever you want, but without infringing anyone else's rights? if everyone would quit ****ing with everybody else we'd be fine. unfortunately, no one ever has as much as they want (christians included) and greed causes them to devalue the lives of their neighbors.

so i suppose it's just wishful thinking.

p.s. there is no god.

Quote from SuckCannon

think about it. why do you need to rely on that deity? god has never forced you to use his system of morals, so you've really been doing it yourself all along.
If you really read the bible, you'd know that God gives you free-will so that he can see if you're worthy enough to enter heaven when your time comes. That argument was just pointless.

the bible has too much hate for me to consider it a good source of morality.
Now just how much of the bible did you read before producing this theory?

the holier-than-thou attitude is permanently ingrained in christianity. why not do whatever you want, but without infringing anyone else's rights?
So basically what you're saying is is that we should just lock ourselves off from society and never cross another person's path at all? Because I don't understand how people are supposed to "do whatever they want" without someone else being involved. Except for, maybe, masturbation.

if everyone would quit ****ing with everybody else we'd be fine.
Wow what a philosophy. You should probably make your own television therapy session.

unfortunately, no one ever has as much as they want (christians included) and greed causes them to devalue the lives of their neighbors.
So what you're saying is everyday, every single Christian on Earth succumbs to his or her greedy nature and fucks someone over in the process?

so i suppose it's just wishful thinking.

p.s. there is no god.
Wow, what a useful and needed statement.

Responses in bold.

If you really read the bible, you'd know that God gives you free-will so that he can see if you're worthy enough to enter heaven when your time comes. That argument was just pointless.
quite aware of that. you can be moral without threats of punishment. he gave us free will but still wants to scare us into loving him, so what kind of choice is that really?
(if there were actual, definitive proof of god's existence no one would deny him. as it stands, the complexity of a tree or rainbow doesn't do it for me.)


Now just how much of the bible did you read before producing this theory?
i'd say about all of it. sure, excluding the old testament removes much of the hate, but it's still present in the NT.


So basically what you're saying is is that we should just lock ourselves off from society and never cross another person's path at all? Because I don't understand how people are supposed to "do whatever they want" without someone else being involved. Except for, maybe, masturbation.
plz read. "without infringing on anyone else's rights" i didn't say exclude yourself from society, i said don't do anything that takes away another person's rights. like murdering them, get it?


Wow what a philosophy. You should probably make your own television therapy session.
i was actually thinking about doing just that and.. oh, you're being sarcastic. cuts me to the core.


So what you're saying is everyday, every single Christian on Earth succumbs to his or her greedy nature and fucks someone over in the process?
it wasn't directed at just christians, but yeah. human beings by nature love to **** each other over.
you can exaggerate my statements as much as you want, but hopefully the others on here realize that was a loaded question as i clearly did not say what you are taking out of it.


Wow, what a useful and needed statement.
same.

Responses in italic.

example

Mark 7:26 The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter.
7:27 But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.

she begs and he does help her, but why did she have to beg? because she's greek, jesus believes she is unworthy.

edit: aw buddy, come on back. i wanted to argue.

I know this is a massive ****ing bump, but it was a very good, clean debate, and it left a lot of unanswered questions. Instead of making a new one that would, for the first 3 pages, be nothing but people complaining about religion-related debates, I decided to ressurect this one.

Hopefully we can get back into the debate without too much whining.


To kick it back into gear, I maintain that people may be able to bolster their morals through some form of holy text, but in practice reject anything that seems immoral to them, and only pick and choose "the good stuff".

I Don't know if I posted here already, but my answer is yes.

People are weak. Well not weak, but if they believe in something ''magical', some spirit, some higher power, it gives them a lot of faith and hope.

Some people if there scared, pray to god, and then think its in his hands, thus making them feel much less scared, and more self-secured.

I am a christian, but I'm not sure if there's a god. I believe in a guiding sort of thing though, we don't have in control. But even if he doesn't exist, I'm in a way glad people THINK he does. Cause he gives people hope, to defeat things like.. Cancer for example, which have no cure. Or those kinda thinking stuff, that are hard to do by just human hand. And thinking gods power is in-human. And believing in something like that makes you mentally stronger as well.

But it also causes a lot of war :\ which a certain type of religion does a lot.. (Not naming) besides that, yea.

Haven't really read the thread so lol.. I could be just re-saying stuff.

Quote from Ssjbryando

I Don't know if I posted here already, but my answer is yes.

People are weak. Well not weak, but if they believe in something ''magical', some spirit, some higher power, it gives them a lot of faith and hope.

Some people if there scared, pray to god, and then think its in his hands, thus making them feel much less scared, and more self-secured.

I am a christian, but I'm not sure if there's a god. I believe in a guiding sort of thing though, we don't have in control. But even if he doesn't exist, I'm in a way glad people THINK he does. Cause he gives people hope, to defeat things like.. Cancer for example, which have no cure. Or those kinda thinking stuff, that are hard to do by just human hand. And thinking gods power is in-human. And believing in something like that makes you mentally stronger as well.

But it also causes a lot of war :\ which a certain type of religion does a lot.. (Not naming) besides that, yea.

Haven't really read the thread so lol.. I could be just re-saying stuff.

It sounds like you are saying that it would be better for a person with an incurable disease to believe that prayer can help that for them to accept their fate, even if god were to not exist. Is that correct?

If so, then I contend that that has an adverse effect. Sure, it may comfort that one person, but for others the belief in prayer may be deadly. For example, imagine if someone has a disease with a known cure, but decides to sacrifice a goat instead of get medicine. The assumption I'll make is that they die, and while they may have died comforted by the thought of their god, they still died.

My point is not that this always happens with theists. I know that most theists don't do things like that, and that theists are usually very rational beings. However, the people to whom they give these beliefs can't always be counted on to behave just as rationally as other theists, especially if their holy book says that sacrificing a goat will cure your ailments. YOU may know that it isn't meant to be done, but others don't always have the same interpretation as you.

god falls under the want catagory of want and need.

you need water, food, clothes, etc

In my opinion, God is simply a filler for the "afterlife". People want to have something to look forward to after death, and they don't want to believe that there's nothing then. That's practically the whole basis of all religions; "assurance" that there's something to do after you die. People can't deal with the idea that you stop existing, stop comprehension, stop all aspects of life when you die, although that makes perfect sense.

tl;dr: People make up gods and religions so that they have something to do after death.

You say successful aethiests exist, but all the "aethiests" I know run to god when they're in trouble. Especially those aethiests with Christian families, who celebrate Christmas, get married in churches and do everything a Christian does, all it takes is one incident for them to revert what they are actually inside. The thing is, most white people have grown up around primarily Christians - its the only thing they know, and its somewhere inside them. If you're a proper aethiest, then behave like one, because its not just belief which constitutes a religion - its the practices people follow.

@herbivore
I don't resort to God for anything, because when you try to talk to God, it's like talking to yourself, except it doesn't work. I know this for fact, because my grandmother died last week.


If there is a time of no explanations, and some one says "ooh there is a man in the sky directing everything we do" people we accept it, regardless of how strange it sounds. When there are no explanations, people will accept almost anything.

And obviously it had been a long time going that no one ever disputed that, and that is why there are so many christians, because they think that if something has been believed for a long time, it must be true.

It's also sort of a first-come first-serve thing. Religion was the first "explanation" for many things, according to a lot of old civilizations. It's generally harder to get people to believe something new when there's already a widely accepted explanation. Religious people tend to be stubborn, imo.

See, science can give you tangible facts and information explaining nearly everything. That's what I believe in. I don't like blind faith. It's like pretending to sword fight, or gun fight or whatnot as a child. You just propose "Ok, so there's a guy in the sky who created everything and runs everything." and so you play by those rules.

I'm starting to ramble.

Quote from herbivore

You say successful aethiests exist, but all the "aethiests" I know run to god when they're in trouble. Especially those aethiests with Christian families, who celebrate Christmas, get married in churches and do everything a Christian does, all it takes is one incident for them to revert what they are actually inside. The thing is, most white people have grown up around primarily Christians - its the only thing they know, and its somewhere inside them. If you're a proper aethiest, then behave like one, because its not just belief which constitutes a religion - its the practices people follow.

WHOA, WHOA THERE.

For a start, I do not know any atheists who run to god. Yet, this is not an arguement on either of our parts, and those who run to god are not really atheists, just doubting believers. I am annoyed that you use your personal experience as a broad generalization and also as a "factual" point in this debate.

Secondly, I hate the "athiests shouldn't celebrate christmas" arguement that you put forward. Why the hell not? Chirstmas long ago broke away from its strictly religious roots, and although it is a religious holiday it has also developed into a public holiday. It's the time when families get together, when friends give gifts and have a merry day. Arguing to deny that to atheists is selfish, considering it's not just your holiday anymore.

Thirdly, getting married in a church should not be restricted to non-atheists. It is a celebration of marriage, and just because god is not involved does not make it any less "holy".

Quote from Ssjbryando

I Don't know if I posted here already, but my answer is yes.

People are weak. Well not weak, but if they believe in something ''magical', some spirit, some higher power, it gives them a lot of faith and hope.

Some people if there scared, pray to god, and then think its in his hands, thus making them feel much less scared, and more self-secured.

It also makes them less independant, and believing in something that just isn't going to happen, thus when it doesn't happen they lose all faith and slip into depression.

Just thought I should point that out.