There's a debate in the NHS at the moment (and possibly elsewhere) about whether or not medical staff (I'll say doctor from here on in because it's quicker, but nurses, etc. apply) should be allowed to offer to pray for their patients.

On one side, it can make the patient feel slightly reassured and can help them to connect with their doctor. It may also make the doctor feel better if he knows he can't do anything else.

On the other hand, it is argued that the patient may feel under pressure to do something he doesn't believe in and some may find it irritating or patronising, especially if the doctor is a different religion to them.

For the record, both sides have said that it's ok for the patient to ask the doctor to pray with them - just not the other way around.


I, personally, am against doctors offering to pray for their patients, mostly on the grounds that it opens up the patient to being converted if they inexplicably get better and appear to have had a 'miracle cure', even though nothing different would have happened if no one had prayed at all.

I also think that, if I were in hospital, I would feel incredibly nervous if the doctors had had to resort to prayer.

They wouldn't "resort" to prayer. The would most likely just use it just to connect or make themselves feel better.

And who really cares?

Quote from Strelok

They wouldn't "resort" to prayer. The would most likely just use it just to connect or make themselves feel better.

That's not the point. The point is how it makes the patient feel. If I've been told everything is going to be fine, followed by a "we'll be praying for you," then I'm going to be thinking "Wait, you said everything was fine. Why are you going to be praying? Is there something I haven't been told?"

Quote from Strelok

And who really cares?

The British Secular Society.

I really think this can be something dealt with on a person to person level. I mean, what are you going to do? Ban doctors from praying for people.

A doctor already respects the patients choices. For example: the choice of surgery is up to the patient. In my opinion, the question of "can I pray for you" is up to the patient and sounds like a sincere request. It doesn't even sound like something a doctor could flip for religious influence over you.

Quote from Dudeman

what are you going to do? Ban doctors from praying for people.

That's what they're considering. Any doctor who told a patient that they would be praying, or asked the patient to pray with them, would be punished.

I'm not saying that the doctors are deliberately trying to convert people, but that could be the result (which I can't really discuss because that would mean a complete religious debate)

Quote from Zed

I, personally, am against doctors offering to pray for their patients, mostly on the grounds that it opens up the patient to being converted if they inexplicably get better and appear to have had a 'miracle cure', even though nothing different would have happened if no one had prayed at all.

I also think that, if I were in hospital, I would feel incredibly nervous if the doctors had had to resort to prayer.

What if the doctor praying for the patient makes God to save the patient through divine intervention? And why is it so bad that a patient who survives by a miracle converts to whatever religion?

I agree with Dudeman, a simple question from the doctor cannot hurt at all, really. It would be worse if the patients had to ask the doctors for prayer. It would be hard for any doctor to refuse to pray for a dying patient, as that would kind of be an douchebag thing to do, so many atheist doctors would end up performing a religious ritual they do not believe in.

Quote from alive

What if the doctor praying for the patient makes God to save the patient through divine intervention? And why is it so bad that a patient who survives by a miracle converts to whatever religion?

That's something for a different thread. I think I mentioned in my above post that I didn't want to drag this into a complete religious debate. That's why I'm going to focus on the other arguments now.

Quote from alive

I agree with Dudeman, a simple question from the doctor cannot hurt at all, really. It would be worse if the patients had to ask the doctors for prayer. It would be hard for any doctor to refuse to pray for a dying patient, as that would kind of be an douchebag thing to do, so many atheist doctors would end up performing a religious ritual they do not believe in.

I don't think it's a bad thing at all for an atheist doctor to pray with a patient. I'm an atheist - you know this - but if I were a doctor I would understand that my obligation is to relieve suffering as much as possible, and this includes emotionally. Praying for a patient to make them feel better if they ask for it is practically part of the job description.

On the other hand, is has been argued that it is very hard for a patient to refuse to pray with the doctor. They may feel that they would be alienating him and this would obviously not be good, given the situation. This leads to a very uncomfortable situation for the patient.

goddamnit it zed can you ever just shut the **** up for once?

Quote from Zed

On the other hand, is has been argued that it is very hard for a patient to refuse to pray with the doctor. They may feel that they would be alienating him and this would obviously not be good, given the situation. This leads to a very uncomfortable situation for the patient.

Well the last time I checked you don't ban things to avoid an awkward situation.

Asking a doctor not to pray for you is no different then any of these options:

"Don't give me this type of treatment. I'd take a different treatment"
"Don't give me pain killers, I'll do fine without them. Thanks anyway"
"Don't bother trying to treat me with extraordinary measures. I'm ready to die"

It's an optional choice, not an implication.

NOW-AH IM ONLAY DO-AHN DIS FOH THA NEXT 20 MINUTS BUT IF YAH CALL NOW-AH YOU CAN GET A FREE-AH PRAYOR CLOTH TO HEAL YOURSELF I SAY TO HEAL YOURSELF-AH!!!! PRAISE THA LORD-AH!

HERES SOME-AH TESTIMONIESAH
I had some pain in my hand and i put the cloth on it and i WAS HEALED BY THE LORD OF GOD HIMSELF

I was impregnated and i put the cloth on my belly and i had a miscarriage! THX GOD

I broke my leg and i put the cloth on my cast for a month and my leg WAS HEALED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


PRAISE DA LORD-AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Frankly, I'd be more than a little bit worried about this. "Dear God, I pray that I don't forget a scalpel inside my patient, amen." Yikes. It just seems like we're adding an element of chance or miracle to medical stuff, which is sort of important to get right. I don't like the idea on those grounds alone.

Quote from Smashdood

Frankly, I'd be more than a little bit worried about this. "Dear God, I pray that I don't forget a scalpel inside my patient, amen." Yikes. It just seems like we're adding an element of chance or miracle to medical stuff, which is sort of important to get right. I don't like the idea on those grounds alone.

From my understanding, it's more like, "You have Incurable Fatal Disease, and will die in two weeks. Would you like me to pray for you?"

I believe it covers all prayer. Obviously more prayer will be offered if you're terminally ill than if you're in for an ingrowing toenail, but I wouldn't be surprised at prayer for any operation under anaesthetic where there is a chance of death, whatever the illness.