An argument that most people see as a "gray area" argument. they will say that there is no plain black and white answer. these are anything from quantum math equations to spiritual beliefs and everything that led up to this moment is it just random or or is it determined Sometimes it's very hard to see the most plain answer, but it is there though it might be hard to find. this question being answered correctly can allow you to see if your a person of religion or... if shit just happens. so to explain a bit-

-Randomness, the ideal that all things just happen. the fact that were alive is pure coincidence through a complex strain of chemical mishaps. and nothing we do is supposed to happen. Randomness is the thought that things just happen all by coincidence.

-Determination, the ideal that things are determined before they happen. that wee and earth and the universe is here on purpose, all part of things that were going to inevitably happen under any beggining curcumstances.

so i ask any one who takes the time to read this, what do you believe in and what backs it up?...

"Shit just happens" is actually in a way a deterministic position. Shit happening causes other things to happen in a completely logical pattern, and it seems that the only place that random actually exists is in the quantum world, but that's just because we don't understand the quantum world well enough to understand all of the interactions between quantum particles. It's likely that they actually behave in predictable ways. This is determinism without an intelligent being.

I believe in Determination without an intelligent being like Ash said.

I concur.

Randomness does not exist... If it did, we would not have universal constants like the scale of an atom, the speed of light, or the force of gravity. The universe would be in a state of chaos, unlike the ordered state that it's in now.

Quote from CGIllusion

Randomness does not exist... If it did, we would not have universal constants like the scale of an atom, the speed of light, or the force of gravity. The universe would be in a state of chaos, unlike the ordered state that it's in now.

but those could have been brought about through a strain of random events. instead of saying that one cant even exist just simply claim the fact that you believe in determination

Determination.
I'd say "Everything depends on everything."

Try to create an application (computer) that would generate random numbers.

What avian points out is true. Have you ever heard of Chaos Theory? I reccomend you read Jurrassic Park, it deals a whole lot with it.

I already think the world is predetermined, and I feel perfectly fine. As long as I have ree will to the extent that it matters, I'm perfectly happy.

I don't want to know, tbh. I want the security of determinism but the freedom of randomness, and a specific fact would eliminate one of those.

Not exactly. If the world is either, then we can live our lives exactly the same way.

And randomness isn't free. You are a slave to the die if you are a slave to anything in determinism. However, the fact is that this determinism is so far beyond our observation that it really doesn't matter in every day lives.

I don't think some of you understand the definition of random in the context of the universe. Events don't just happen randomly... there is always a cause of the event and an expected outcome. If there were no rules that governed the interaction between particles in the universe, then maybe you'd have some sort of randomness. I think it's more appropriate to think of it as chance.

In my opinion, the simple aspects of the universe all have determined outcomes... that can be predicted by humans for this very reason. However, as the universe becomes more complex a factor of chance comes into the picture. Organisms are less predictable than matter because most organisms have the deciding power to choose what happens next. A rock floating in space can't choose which direction to go, but can only be redirected through it's interactions with other matter. Humans on the other hand can choose a path. If humans cannot decide on a path then they may "leave it to chance" by flipping a coin. The flipping of a coin is not chance though and will have a determined outcome that can theoretically be predicted by calculating the forces applied on the coin, angles, all that other stuff. We just view this as chance because we cannot compute all of these interactions, and therefore the flip of a coin seems random to us.

I donno.

What I meant by the freedom of randomness is that there could never be a situation where people could convict you of a crime you will commit.

And I do believe in Determinism, I'm just trying keep the thread going.

Quote from Bonk

What I meant by the freedom of randomness is that there could never be a situation where people could convict you of a crime you will commit.

And I do believe in Determinism, I'm just trying keep the thread going.

Well in a deterministic universe, it's impossible to convict someone of a crime they will commit. When you convict someone of a crime you see happening in the future, you eliminate it's occurance, so you never could have seen it happen in the first place.


It's called the "future me" paradox.