Quote from Dudeman.

The pollution problem of China is very real. Every "made in china" sticker was belted out by a factory.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0319/p09s01-coop.html

Anyway, like I said. This is probably going to be a text book issue in the future. I just like to watch it unfold. I do love a good riot.

Quote from Stuff

Basically, if the protesters don't want to get jailed or shot, don't protest.

Quote from Stuff

I thought you meant smog hole as an insult lol.

Now that I know you meant it literally, I take back what I said. And yeah, there is a lot of shit in the air. The skyline of Guangzhou was always gray and musky, filled with who knows what. Doesn't mean much anyway lol

I also think,though, that Tibet could wait until after the olympics, because the olympics are suppose to be a time of peace between countrys for everyone's enjoyment. Tibet messing that up does seem wrong, but still, so does what china has done to them.

Quote from Cereal Man

Also, just some background, Adolf Hitler started the Torch Tradition.

Quote from Stuff

Nothing is wrong with the torch, but from what I'm seeing here, the Tibetans are just being assholes who wants to attack China in the most vulnerable way. China has been waiting for the olympics to be hosted in Beijing for quite a while and since the torch is going to end up in China, the protesters want to put it out, so the olympics won't "start".

Basically, if the protesters don't want to get jailed or shot, don't protest. Think of some other creative idea to negotiate with the Chinese government or maybe just deal with it. Honestly if the USA was still under British rule, I probably wouldn't give a shit.



I really have no intentions to debate anything simply because I can't debate, but yes, the censorship is pretty bad in China. My cousins in China still had access to porn when I went over there this summer.

And about the symbolic thing, I'm sure just standing there and protesting would've been fine. Having to get the police to wrestle you to the floor was probably unecessary and just an act that might leave you injured or even jailed.



Are you dense? Bikes are used because there's lots of traffic in China. Motorcycles are used most of the time because they can cut through traffic and there are still lots of cars. Surgical masks? Maybe because there might be some sort of pollution in the air? Don't be surprised, there are lots of dirts and sand in some areas of China. China's economy is getting better each year.

Did you find a poster with some guy in a surgical mask riding a bike or something?

Quote from The Pirate

That's a really, really idiotic way of justifying the actions of a corrupt government. Just look the other way so you don't get hurt? And we're supposed to just accept that instead of trying to change something?

It's like saying Winston was in fact the one in the wrong in Nineteen Eighty-Four, because if he didn't want to suffer such a fate, he should never have opposed the Party in the first place.

Quote from Dax

I respect your view on the matter, but really, jailed for four years just for asking to protest is insane (true story). Plus they were protesting peacefully, but getting beaten for it, thats wrong. I say if tibet can protest non-violently, why cant china respond non-violently also? I was talking about the protests in general btw, nothing to do with the torch, which I think is a little crazy. I also think,though, that Tibet could wait until after the olympics, because the olympics are suppose to be a time of peace between countrys for everyone's enjoyment. Tibet messing that up does seem wrong, but still, so does what china has done to them.

Quote from Stuff

Hey man, I never said anything about forcing them to stop, it's their choice and they know what'd happen if they continue. And if you had read the sentence after that, I stated that they should find some other way to negotiate so lives wouldn't be lost/jailed.

I don't care about the Tibetans protesting to China, it's just people are getting angry about the fact that the Chinese are jailing and killing the protesters. If they know the consequences and they're still pushing to protest, I really have nothing to say.

What I'm trying to say is if they want to continue, do whatever, just don't drag down the olympics while they're at it. Call me ignorant, but enough is enough. Knock down one torch, good, the world gets the message, so why continue?

Quote from The Pirate

No offense, but you seem really naive about this.

Not every cause can be fought in a conveniently safe, simple, or even legal way. When you're dealing with a corrupt government, do you really think they are just going to put up a big proverbial suggestion box to allow their detractors a say in what they do? They don't have any obligation whatsoever to simply allow protestors a chance to speak, if you want to get a message out, sometimes you have to fight someone to do so.

You're trying to justify the evils of these governments by saying that it is the fault of the protesters for fighting against something even when they knew the consequences, and that they should've found some "other way of negotiating".

So I ask you this:

What the hell are you supposed to do when there is no other way of negotiating? Just give up to avoid getting hurt? If people had this attitude none of histories most important revolutions ever would've happened. We would all probably still be controlled by monarchies if that were the case.