Stick Page Forums Archive

Gettin' it on with someone who's not even real

Started by: かがみ | Replies: 13 | Views: 1,007

かがみ
2

Posts: 24
Joined: Jul 2009
Rep: 10

View Profile
Oct 19, 2009 9:13 AM #503227
I'll be honest: I didn't even do the slightest of skims over this forum to see if such a thread already existed. And really, it doesn't matter, because whether or not it already exists doesn't actually concern me.

So here's an actual debate for you, as opposed to "lololol, do u belive n goasts??"* or "do j00 tink tat mehbeh aliens exist out dere sumwer?"** or "religion"***. The morality of living in a fantasy, and "being in love" with a fictional character, or an artificial intelligence (thus effectively shutting out the real world).

Whoever's up for it, I'd like to do a Skype panel on this. Skype name's jwes89. You could be in a YouTube video! Wouldn't you feel special...


*No offense, just poking fun.
**Same story here.
***But not here. Religious debates are retarded.
alive
2

Posts: 1,331
Joined: May 2007
Rep: 10

View Profile
Oct 19, 2009 10:52 AM #503258
Wait, are we supposed to debate whether it is immoral or not to fall in love with a fictional character, like say, harry potter? I don't understand.
Jexsam
2

Posts: 286
Joined: Aug 2009
Rep: 10

View Profile
Oct 19, 2009 7:24 PM #503396
I'm going to try, for sport.


I think it's entirely possible to fall in love with a fictional character. It's really not too different from loving a real human being; all the same emotions and chemical responses are there, it's just in one scenario you can actually do the other person, whereas in the former, it's purely emotional, with no real physical release involving two parties (leaving the door open for those who think masturbation counts, to be fair). Obviously where artificial intelligence comes in, this grays a little, as it's entirely possible for the intelligence to have an artificial body you can get jiggy with. As things stand AI-wise, it's impossible for them to love you back, so it stays one-sided, but who knows what the future holds...?

As for its morality, I don't see how it could be immoral, just abnormal (thought not necessarily wrong, mind you). If it goes from emotional love to downright obsession, then an intervention might be needed, and even then, nothing immoral is happening.

And lastly, practicality. For a fictional character, from a video game or a book, it's highly impractical. No reproduction can take place, no communal sharing intimate knowledge can occur, and it remains terribly one-sided. With robots and AI, as thing stand, conversation can be hand, but it's limited. However, reproduction is still impossible, and all in all, it defeats the evolutionary purpose of finding a mate; no reproduction.

As long as the entire population doesn't fall victim to robot AI love, then I don't see how a few cases can be considered wrong in any way.
Zed
2

Posts: 11,572
Joined: Feb 2009
Rep: 10

View Profile
Oct 19, 2009 7:31 PM #503401
Quote from かがみ
So here's an actual debate for you, as opposed to "lololol, do u belive n goasts??"* or "do j00 tink tat mehbeh aliens exist out dere sumwer?"** or "religion"***.


ololol iz it 0k 4 me 2 wank ova anime that i drawd?!?11/!*


No one is hurt and somebody gains. It is moral. It is also possible. I don't know what you actually want us to debate. Your OP isn't very clear.

*Just making a point ;)
Wtf
2

Posts: 5,683
Joined: Oct 2006
Rep: 10

View Profile
Oct 19, 2009 7:45 PM #503414
Why would a real debate be worse than your ridiculous naruto fiction love?
Exile
Administrator
2

Posts: 8,404
Joined: Dec 2005
Rep: 10

View Profile
Oct 19, 2009 8:38 PM #503436
Quote from かがみ
So here's an actual debate for you, as opposed to "lololol, do u belive n goasts??"* or "do j00 tink tat mehbeh aliens exist out dere sumwer?"** or "religion"***


Way to make a good first impression
かがみ
2

Posts: 24
Joined: Jul 2009
Rep: 10

View Profile
Oct 20, 2009 1:08 PM #503650
Quote from Exilement
Way to make a good first impression

Well technically, it's more of a fifty millionth impression, but whatever.
Quote from Zed
I don't know what you actually want us to debate. Your OP isn't very clear.

Bingo, this guy gets it. I don't really think before I speak, or act. Instead, I tend to get excited about something, and then blurt out nonsense, thus having to repeat myself.

So allow me to put this into better perspective for all of you: I was chilling out, maxing, relaxing all cool and all, and surfing the YouTube, when I came across a video by these apparent web-news anchors. They were talking about a story that had run in some major newspaper about how certain "ppl n japanz lololololol" (because this ONLY applies to Japanese people, of course) claimed to only be interested in 2D characters, and not in real women. Now of course, everything they said was moronic and uninformed (to say the least), but they did touch on a good subject for discussion. These people were really ripping on toon-lovers. I only saw one video response, surprisingly, and it was even dumber than the video to which it was a response. It was just ten seconds of an Internet Tough Guy flipping off the camera and trying to speak for everyone. I couldn't describe how idiotic he was, you'd have to see the video yourselves, but don't look to me for a link.



So here's what I'm getting at, really: You have people who would shut themselves off from the real world for a character that can never love them (or even interact with them, for that matter), and you have the majority of society, who tells them they're losers. Things can get heated quickly, especially considering the low mental capacity of someone who would rather be "together" with a character that it's technically impossible to be together with than a real human. Such tardfaces tend to blow up quickly in defense of their flawed beliefs. Kinda like Christfags.

Now here's a whole other layer of complexity: Artificial Intelligence CAN interact with you, unlike fictional characters. Artificial Intelligence may not be Terminator-smart yet, but it's getting there. Fast. Robots that look like humans already exist (in limited quantities, not available to the public), and with the rate of technological progression, we'll probably be seeing persocoms on the market before you know it. Yes, I just made that reference. Ignore it and move on. At a point where it's visually impossible to tell the difference between a human and a machine, and when they are able to think and act like humans, what then?



I guess I don't really know what the debate is any better than you do, is what I'm saying. Basically, I see that there is a debate here, but I can't really tell you what it is. My best guess is that "morality" was the wrong choice of words. And while toons and AI are two separate things, I decided to cover them both at once, because either way, to "fall" for someone who isn't a real human is something that isn't socially accepted, and probably won't be for some time. Is it wrong? That's a matter of opinion, and my opinion is no. More importantly, how do people look at those who shut themselves off from real human interaction for their fantasies? As freaks? Is that how they should be viewed?

Let me set this straight here and now: I'm that person who always strives for total neutrality in a debate. I see a debate not as a contest, but as a means of gaining a better collective assessment of given knowledge. Thus, I merely provide the pros and cons of both sides, and leave the rest to the jury. Also, I never insult anyone on either side. You may notice I've been speaking somewhat offensively up to this point. That's just the troll in me doing its thing. It does that. No real offense to anyone.

That said, here are the pros and cons, as I see them. Here, I'll keep fictional characters separate from AI.

CHARACTER PROS
Characters can never hurt you, and will never ask anything of you. As well, if you go out on the street, not every woman you meet is going to look like a supermodel and be as knowledgeable and intelligent as Wikipedia. Plus, ten times out of ten, a real woman will break your heart eventually. Whether they completely crush you and leave you tying your own noose because you're too much of a pansy to deal with a breakup, or if they perhaps forget to pick up your favorite brand of potato chips while they're out one day, it's so much safer to hide away in a fantasy world where nothing can hurt you.

CHARACTER CONS
... Except the fantasy world itself. You duck into an imaginary land of unicorns and busty anime girls, and before you know it, you've failed out of college twice in a row, your rent's due and you have no money, and you can't help but dig deeper and deeper into your own grave. That's not to mention the fact that the real reason for going with a fictional girl is either because you're too much of a coward to find a real girl because you know how hard it'll be once she's in your life, or because you think that no real woman can be as perfect as a fake one. And if your reasoning is the latter, and you would pass up a perfectly nice girl who is throwing herself at you simply because she's not good enough, but your imaginary friend is, then that means that you are secretly gay and in denial.

AI PROS
Give it a couple of years, and they'll look just like us, act just like us, think just like us, possibly even "feel" just like us. Give it a few more years, and we may even be able to reproduce with them. That is, technically, well within the realm of possibility. It sounds crazy at first, but synthetic and/or cloned organs are completely plausible, even today. So what exactly is the difference between a human and an AI? The fact that the hard drive will die and you'll have to get it replaced every few years? Pfft. Small price to pay. Just be sure to make frequent backups. You can literally imagine the perfect woman (or guy, I won't judge) for you, and make them a reality. No one would be able to tell the difference, and even you may start to see them as a genuine, organic being. Point is, in a few years, there will be next to no difference between humans and humanoid machines. It's just more power to you if you have the money and decide to go that route.

AI CONS
Some would argue that no matter how real a machine may seem, they are ultimately mindless drones that can't do anything other than what they are programmed to do. In other words, it is not possible to share a bond of love with a machine. Also, it can be argued that even if such a machine were given prosthetic or cloned reproductive organs, it would still produce a human baby, thus rendering the machine's role pointless. Also, computers make for costly companions when parts go bad. Especially computers that require literal surgery to replace the parts.



My stance on the issues? If you feel love for someone, it doesn't matter if they're man, woman, fictional, artificial, real, or whatever. You feel what you feel, and that's that. But people should know the difference between fantasy and reality. If you find yourself falling for a fictional character, you can't truly be "in love" with them, since you can't even interact with them. Basically, you love the idea of them. You love what they are. In my case, Hiiragi Kagami is super smart, cynical, easily enraged, has a soft and romantic side that she's heavily embarrassed by and does her best to keep hidden under a tough exterior, and let's not forget that she's not bad on the eyes. I don't love Hiiragi Kagami the character, I love everything that she is. Honestly, she reminds me a lot of my mother. I guess it's true what they say about guys looking for their moms in women.

As for AI-lovin', I'm totally for that. Nothing else needs to be said on that.
Chunky
Banned

Posts: 4,311
Joined: May 2007
Rep: 10

View Profile
Oct 20, 2009 4:25 PM #503680
you've written a massive paragraph on how its okay to love a fictional character or put your dick in a machine

sort your life out!
2-D
2

Posts: 12,355
Joined: Sep 2006
Rep: 10

View Profile
Oct 20, 2009 5:11 PM #503691
my waifu!!!!
MiniMan
2

Posts: 11,846
Joined: Dec 2005
Rep: 10

View Profile
Oct 20, 2009 6:35 PM #503704
Quote from Chunky
you've written a massive paragraph on how its okay to love a fictional character or put your dick in a machine

sort your life out!
Yeah, what he said.
Zed
2

Posts: 11,572
Joined: Feb 2009
Rep: 10

View Profile
Oct 20, 2009 6:44 PM #503707
Frankly, Mr かがみ, you've covered the issue quite thouroughly and I more or less agree with you. It doesn't hurt anyone and I can see no problem with it as such. Except that it is slightly weird and socially reclusive but those things are not technically wrong in themselves.
Mantha
2

Posts: 8,267
Joined: Sep 2005
Rep: 10

View Profile
Oct 20, 2009 6:55 PM #503709
Well there was a thread here somewhere with a link to a video, where grown men got themselves lfe-like dolls for wives. It was kind of sad watching it.
Phosphorus
2

Posts: 1,360
Joined: Jul 2008
Rep: 10

View Profile
Oct 20, 2009 8:51 PM #503742
Quote from Mantha
Well there was a thread here somewhere with a link to a video, where grown men got themselves lfe-like dolls for wives. It was kind of sad watching it.


your friend is weird.
Wtf
2

Posts: 5,683
Joined: Oct 2006
Rep: 10

View Profile
Oct 20, 2009 9:04 PM #503744
Quote from Mantha
Well there was a thread here somewhere with a link to a video, where grown men got themselves lfe-like dolls for wives. It was kind of sad watching it.


I remember that, it was a cool documentary, tough.
Website Version: 1.0.4
© 2025 Max Games. All rights reserved.