Zombie apocalypse

Started by: Obcidien | Replies: 97 | Views: 7,722 | Closed

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Mar 26, 2012 4:06 PM #622277

Quote from Obcidien
I agree, but what established facts say that it is impossible?

I don't think you know how facts work.
Facts prove something exists, not the other way around.

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Mar 26, 2012 6:40 PM #622337

Quote from Obcidien
I agree, but what established facts say that it is impossible?

All the supposed "facts" that you've come up with have been proven to not support your argument. We have already found facts why it is not possible(re-read the first page and in particular Exilment's post, and why viruses can allow a zombie apocalypse), hence establishing that it is not possible. And you have failed to properly refute them rather try to distract us from this by pointing out irrelevant nonsense.

And I have a little treat for you. Your beloved Crack also published http://www.cracked.com/article_18683_7-scientific-reasons-zombie-outbreak-would-fail-quickly.html. Hopefully it can be something you understand since it is from a credible source.

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Mar 26, 2012 6:52 PM #622342

Quote from Obcidien
If the "fact" that earth was flat doesn't change, then is it still a fact? People believed the earth was flat, considering it a fact. When it was found that the earth was round, they then changed the terms of the fact to what it is now.

Consider that last year I was five and a half feet, it was a fact that I was five and a half feet right? This year I'm six feet, the fact of my height changes. Am I wrong?

Your height changes, but the facts did not. Never once did you state that you are always five and a half feet tall, just that you were *last year*. That is not an example of a fact changing.

Exile
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Mar 26, 2012 6:58 PM #622345

Yeah, exactly. What a stupid argument.

For what it's worth I'm not saying it's impossible, just that nobody has any good argument for why it might happen.

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Mar 26, 2012 7:12 PM #622352

I'd like to bring the conversation back to the idea of world domination, but I think I want to elaborate on a medical practice that could be a first step to creating your own biological drone.

Lobotomization is a medical practice that is used on extremely erratic, or violent psychiatric patients that express no real will to be controlled, and so, a rod-like object is pushed into a section in the brain cavity, safely passed the eye, and other indispensable brain sections and organs. When that specific brain section is hit, the patient loses all sense of motivation to do anything... so in a sense, is kind of like a zombie considering the extent of its brain function.

And here is where I apologize, for I lack any further knowledge on neurology or brain surgery that may be relative or helpful to the subject, but perhaps there is a way to directly influence this feckless person who resembles a zombie, so that, in a way, he becomes a zombie-like minion. Like I said, I lack any further knowledge concerning this, if anyone can elaborate to debunk, or support this idea it would be appreciated, I just thought I'd try an attempt at making a somewhat viable supporting statement seeing as the person who originally posted is receiving some vigorous opposition due to his own lack of knowledge as well

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Mar 26, 2012 9:36 PM #622404

It's a bit more complicated than just motivation -- lobotomies basically destroy the brain's ability to carry out executive functions by interrupting its ability to communicate with the prefrontal cortex.

Executive function is an umbrella term for cognitive processes such as planning, working memory, attention, problem solving, verbal reasoning, inhibition, mental flexibility, multi-tasking, initiation and monitoring of actions.

The results are depicted in media a bit differently than they actually play out, though, and since lobotomies have been done without creating anything like a zombie, I think it's safe to say it won't happen any time soon.

That said, it's probably the closest you'll get. If you can somehow target the centers of the brain that process inhibition, self-control and fear, and remove them, you might have something similar to a zombie. But if one part of the brain is damaged/removed, the rest of the brain is very good at picking up the slack. I have no idea how it'd play out in a real-world example because of that.

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Mar 26, 2012 10:40 PM #622447

Quote from Envoy
And I have a little treat for you. Your beloved Crack also published http://www.cracked.com/article_18683_7-scientific-reasons-zombie-outbreak-would-fail-quickly.html. Hopefully it can be something you understand since it is from a credible source.

Again you insult my intelligence and make assumptions. I've never even heard of website until you just gave me this URL.

Also, I said (If you will go back and read my other posts) that the zombie is not at likely to be dead, these seven examples as to why it wouldn't happen mainly all describe things that would happen to an already rotting corpse. If the entity isn't dead, then half of these arguments are invalid already.
For the first example, too many natural predators, should a wild dog eat a zombie it is getting the infection into itself, assuming animals are susceptible to zombification then they themselves have just become a zombie. If they don't then they are still carrying that infection and would pass it on when attacking a normal human (Here I assume that the dog would attack other humans because as it says on the site, it begins to see them as easy prey)

The second example is only valid should the zombie really have risen from the grave, if it isn't dead it isn't rotting. While there will be some places that a zombie wouldn't be able to survive, in most apocalypse scenarios it takes place in cities and other largely populated areas.

Third example, again uses dead, death can't be changed, once it's dead it's dead so in my Opinion this one wouldn't work either because the flesh is still alive.

number four, I agree that biting is a bad way to spread a disease, but (When the epidemic is first starting) people would immediately think zombie because they got bitten, they would play it off as a mentally insane person (Who would continue to bite people until authorities take him in, and how many of them does he manage to bite before locked up?). By the time people start realizing that there are a bunch of crazed man and woman going around biting people, plenty will have been infected and then by the time those people show symptoms there would be thousands all around the world, continuing to bite more and more people. Especially in big cities, a lot of people (Possibly infect) not a lot of room to run, get stuck in a crowd of panicking civilians with zombies coming after you. No there wouldn't be any problem finding out how it's transmitted, but by the time people figure out that it is being transmitted at all it would be too late.

Number five, a paper cut isn't gonna do shit, regardless of if it heals or not. The zombie can't feel pain so it isn't going to stop chasing someone because it stubbed it's toe on rock, it's not even going to know it hit the rock, all it will know is "There's food, i'mma get it." Now, where are the zombies going to find cliffs to fall off of in New York? Yeah there are bridges and buildings but how many zombies will be on them? A vast majority will be on the streets.

Number six, yeah a few will fall off cliffs in the dark, that's what though? 100 zombies out of 1 million and counting? I'm sure landscape won't kill off all of the zombies, but that's just my opinion, since it hasn't (and maybe won't) happened yet I can't be sure what the zombies will do. And as for the buildings being safe because of security doors, unless those doors are made of six inches of steel I'm pretty sure a mass of 90 zombies pushing and pounding a door is going to get it open.

Number seven, the toughest one. Yes, humans are good at killing, but how many are comfortable with killing something that looks like another human being? What if that zombie was once related to them? A lot of people would give up their lives if they lost family to zombies.

(also please try to refrain from insulting me again, all of these, even the examples as to why it wouldn't last are hypothetical, since it isn't an event currently underway it is impossible to make a 100% accurate supposition)

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Mar 27, 2012 1:16 AM #622587

If it hasn't been dead and then reanimated then it is not a zombie. You are talking about mentally afflicted people, which are not contagious.

Quote from Obcidien
(also please try to refrain from insulting me again, all of these, even the examples as to why it wouldn't last are hypothetical, since it isn't an event currently underway it is impossible to make a 100% accurate supposition)

Actually it's very possible to do that. There are certain laws that things in reality, especially biological things, have to obey. You can make suppositions based on that which are pretty much 100% accurate; e.g. a high concrete wall would stop zombies because decaying flesh is not strong enough to propel itself up several feet.

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Mar 27, 2012 3:02 AM #622642

Quote from Obcidien
Again you insult my intelligence and makeassumptions. I've never even heard of website until you just gave me this URL.

The same website was posted on the first page.

Quote from Corey Rich
I used to doubt the entire idea. But, after reading this, http://www.cracked.com/article_15643_5-scientific-reasons-zombie-apocalypse-could-actually-happen.html, I think it's entirely plausible.

I assumed that you would have read it considering that it is your thread. What amazes me is that you took your time to refute something that was meant to be a joke. It was an appropriate hypothetical reply to your hypothetical scenarios. That wasn't even the main message I was trying to get across in that post! I’d like to clarify that I did not even read the article, and will therefore ignore all of your points pertaining to the article.

Quote from Obcidien
Also, I said (If you will go back and read myother posts) that the zombie is not at likely to be dead, these seven examplesas to why it wouldn't happen mainly all describe things that would happen to analready rotting corpse. If the entity isn't dead, then half of these argumentsare invalid already.

So a zombie is what you want it to be. It can be anything that has one or two similar characteristics. I guess I have alot of zombies in my class. I guess those drunk on alcohol are also zombies since they show a lack of conscious awareness and a tendency to bite people. By a widely used definition, "zombie" refers to a reanimated corpse. If it is like a zombie it doesn't mean it is one. And did you forget to define what you meant by this term at the start of the thread, or did you just decide to throw it in the middle of a discussion. Fuck... I feel stupid after explaining this.

Quote from Obcidien
(also please try to refrain from insulting meagain, all of these, even the examples as to why it wouldn't last arehypothetical, since it isn't an event currently underway it is impossible tomake a 100% accurate supposition)

I tried and failed, I thought that insulting you will allow you to understand it better.

It’s funny. The only thing you addressed was the link. And you are trying to place logic into what is fantasy. You say that these are meaningless because they are hypothetical, yet the situation of a zombie apocalypse is also hypothetical. You contradict yourself and, like many other times, prove the opposing point. Essentially your arguments are all formed after playing Resident evil. Next time post something like this in the General Discussion and there will be less insults.

At this point I think you are a troll and will therefore stop posting unless it is evident that you are just lacking in comprehension .

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Mar 27, 2012 1:03 PM #622801

Quote from Envoy
You say that these are meaningless because they are hypothetical, yet the situation of a zombie apocalypse is also hypothetical. You contradict yourself and, like many other times, prove the opposing point.

While I generally think Obcidien tries to present himself as more intelligent than he really is, I don't think that's what he meant. He refuted those points with reasoning that goes beyond "they're just hypothetical". He also never posted anything from Cracked so I don't know why you showed that to him specifically if you didn't want him to respond to it.

I think he meant insulting someone over a position regarding a hypothetical scenario is a bit extreme. Even though I doubt that's why anyone insulted him in the first place.

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Mar 27, 2012 1:15 PM #622805

Quote from Obcidien
Again you insult my intelligence and make assumptions. I've never even heard of website until you just gave me this URL.

Also, I said (If you will go back and read my other posts) that the zombie is not at likely to be dead, these seven examples as to why it wouldn't happen mainly all describe things that would happen to an already rotting corpse. If the entity isn't dead, then half of these arguments are invalid already.
For the first example, too many natural predators, should a wild dog eat a zombie it is getting the infection into itself, assuming animals are susceptible to zombification then they themselves have just become a zombie. If they don't then they are still carrying that infection and would pass it on when attacking a normal human (Here I assume that the dog would attack other humans because as it says on the site, it begins to see them as easy prey)

The second example is only valid should the zombie really have risen from the grave, if it isn't dead it isn't rotting. While there will be some places that a zombie wouldn't be able to survive, in most apocalypse scenarios it takes place in cities and other largely populated areas.

Third example, again uses dead, death can't be changed, once it's dead it's dead so in my Opinion this one wouldn't work either because the flesh is still alive.

number four, I agree that biting is a bad way to spread a disease, but (When the epidemic is first starting) people would immediately think zombie because they got bitten, they would play it off as a mentally insane person (Who would continue to bite people until authorities take him in, and how many of them does he manage to bite before locked up?). By the time people start realizing that there are a bunch of crazed man and woman going around biting people, plenty will have been infected and then by the time those people show symptoms there would be thousands all around the world, continuing to bite more and more people. Especially in big cities, a lot of people (Possibly infect) not a lot of room to run, get stuck in a crowd of panicking civilians with zombies coming after you. No there wouldn't be any problem finding out how it's transmitted, but by the time people figure out that it is being transmitted at all it would be too late.

Number five, a paper cut isn't gonna do shit, regardless of if it heals or not. The zombie can't feel pain so it isn't going to stop chasing someone because it stubbed it's toe on rock, it's not even going to know it hit the rock, all it will know is "There's food, i'mma get it." Now, where are the zombies going to find cliffs to fall off of in New York? Yeah there are bridges and buildings but how many zombies will be on them? A vast majority will be on the streets.

Number six, yeah a few will fall off cliffs in the dark, that's what though? 100 zombies out of 1 million and counting? I'm sure landscape won't kill off all of the zombies, but that's just my opinion, since it hasn't (and maybe won't) happened yet I can't be sure what the zombies will do. And as for the buildings being safe because of security doors, unless those doors are made of six inches of steel I'm pretty sure a mass of 90 zombies pushing and pounding a door is going to get it open.

Number seven, the toughest one. Yes, humans are good at killing, but how many are comfortable with killing something that looks like another human being? What if that zombie was once related to them? A lot of people would give up their lives if they lost family to zombies.

(also please try to refrain from insulting me again, all of these, even the examples as to why it wouldn't last are hypothetical, since it isn't an event currently underway it is impossible to make a 100% accurate supposition)

Dear God that is the worst thing I've ever read. Let me show you something.
#1 Diseases that affect people might not affect animals the same way diseases that affect animals may do nothing to people. Dogs and People are not the same thing.
#2 In most cities, the vast majority of people are armed. 9 out of 10 people in the United States own firearms.
#3 What the fuck did I just read?
#4 Sure, a mentally deranged person who fucking eats other people. The cops won't think a thing. Also, the CDC would be on the scene before you could count to three. And if a thousand people are infected, shit, kill em all, then.
#5 Yes it will. The reason why those paper cuts heal is because you don't want them to get infected. And if they get infected, it hurts like fuck. And if it continues to hurt like fuck, eventually the leg will get gangrene and just die. And when your leg dies, you can no longer move that leg, and it becomes a stump. Now imagine having cuts like that all over your body, and maggots eating your fucking intestines and brain.
#6 you fail to realize that people can climb things, and zombies can't. and there are plenty of natural barriers in the world. However, I could literally get on my roof, pull the ladder up, and be safe indefinitely. Now imagine that you were in a highrise and simply destroyed the stairs.
#7 Lol, I lived in Africa, homie, and if there's one thing I can tell you, it's that there is nothing that gives people a thrill other than killing others. And if you're uneasy about killing a zombie, well, fuck you, natural selection's at work. People have killed each other for less, even for nothing, so if my neighbors were coming at me with bits of infant on their teeth, I think I'd pull the trigger on them.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

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Mar 27, 2012 1:25 PM #622810

Quote from Exilement
While I generally think Obcidien tries to present himself as more intelligent than he really is, I don't think that's what he meant. He refuted those points with reasoning that goes beyond "they're just hypothetical". He also never posted anything from Cracked so I don't know why you showed that to him specifically if you didn't want him to respond to it.

I think he meant insulting someone over a position regarding a hypothetical scenario is a bit extreme. Even though I doubt that's why anyone insulted him in the first place.

Yes, I do try to make myself seem more intelligent than I really am, but I won't accept being insulted as if I'm an idiot because it simply isn't true. What I'm lacking (And I'll own up to it and admit that I'm lacking it) isn't comprehension or intelligence, it's experience. I apologize if I haven't exactly had the time to scour the internet to prove a 15 year old wrong about something that is based on ancient mythology and superstition. I barely even have enough time to read and respond to each of your posts so if I seem to be making a fool of myself it is because I am rushing through each entry. In general I find it unnecessary to insult someone at all during a debate, which is meant to be a civil argument, not a pissing contest.

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Mar 27, 2012 1:26 PM #622812

Quote from Obcidien
Yes, I do try to make myself seem more intelligent than I really am, but I won't accept being insulted as if I'm an idiot because it simply isn't true. What I'm lacking (And I'll own up to it and admit that I'm lacking it) isn't comprehension or intelligence, it's experience. I apologize if I haven't exactly had the time to scour the internet to prove a 15 year old wrong about something that is based on ancient mythology and superstition. I barely even have enough time to read and respond to each of your posts so if I seem to be making a fool of myself it is because I am rushing through each entry. In general I find it unnecessary to insult someone at all during a debate, which is meant to be a civil argument, not a pissing contest.

Exilement's like, 32, nigga.

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Mar 27, 2012 1:29 PM #622813

Quote from Captain Cook
Dear God that is the worst thing I've ever read. Let me show you something.
#1 Diseases that affect people might not affect animals the same way diseases that affect animals may do nothing to people. Dogs and People are not the same thing.
#2 In most cities, the vast majority of people are armed. 9 out of 10 people in the United States own firearms.
#3 What the fuck did I just read?
#4 Sure, a mentally deranged person who fucking eats other people. The cops won't think a thing. Also, the CDC would be on the scene before you could count to three. And if a thousand people are infected, shit, kill em all, then.
#5 Yes it will. The reason why those paper cuts heal is because you don't want them to get infected. And if they get infected, it hurts like fuck. And if it continues to hurt like fuck, eventually the leg will get gangrene and just die. And when your leg dies, you can no longer move that leg, and it becomes a stump. Now imagine having cuts like that all over your body, and maggots eating your fucking intestines and brain.
#6 you fail to realize that people can climb things, and zombies can't. and there are plenty of natural barriers in the world. However, I could literally get on my roof, pull the ladder up, and be safe indefinitely. Now imagine that you were in a highrise and simply destroyed the stairs.
#7 Lol, I lived in Africa, homie, and if there's one thing I can tell you, it's that there is nothing that gives people a thrill other than killing others. And if you're uneasy about killing a zombie, well, fuck you, natural selection's at work. People have killed each other for less, even for nothing, so if my neighbors were coming at me with bits of infant on their teeth, I think I'd pull the trigger on them.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Did you bother to read my post at all?

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Mar 27, 2012 1:51 PM #622817

Okay, after obsidians clearly abysmal attempts (although he won't admit this, even though, clearly, his virus analogy was utter rubbish) at trying to prove a zombie apocalypse is possible, I will try and hold the team up, just for a bit of fun. So disregard what he has said when concerning my post, as I don't believe any of it (FYI, if two zombies did 'get busy', unless the zombie disease caused infertility, the female would get pregnant and would have a zombie baby. of course, they're not going to 'get busy'. plus there is no such thing as a 'grey area'. that was utter shit. I could go on...)

ANYWAY:
Arguing that a zombie is by definition undead, is not strictly correct:
The TRADITIONAL ombre was considered undead, I will grant you that.
HOWEVER there is a more modern definition of zombie, namely, some sort of infection which turns you into one. you don't die, you just go a bit crazy.
This is the sorta zombie which is present in "Left for dead", the infected zombie (although, obviously the mutations couldn't actually exist, I'm talking strictly about the general zombies here.) This is also the type of zombie present in the movie "I am Legend" (yes, i do know that in the book they are defined as vampires, but the movie suggests they're zombies, or at least something similar)

Now, think about it this way: there are diseases, such as rabies, which cause aggression in animals. Now, I'm sure we can hypothetically imagine a disease which caused a similar effect in humans, however to a much greater degree, so that they become hyper violent ect. (furthermore this aggression would cause them to kill animals as well as people, stopping the whole 'natural prey' scenario.)

Now, there are also reported cases of people in the world who don't feel pain. Now, I don't know exactly what causes this, but I'm pretty sure that its some sort of damage to the brain, or nerves or CNS ect. Now, there do exist viruses and bacteria which, when they infect someone, "target" (i use that term loosely) specific parts of the body. Now, we can imagine a virus which attacks the same part of the body which, if it defects, will preent us from feeling pain.

Now, imagine a virus which does both these things, and we have a virus which creates painless, aggressive people. We have something along the way to creating a zombie.

Now lets imagine that its not just bites which spread the infection, but other modes, such as droplet infection ect. This is how the disease is also spread in Left for Dead, AND I am legend, not just biting.

So, we have a zombie-like disease which CAN spread pretty quickly. So, the makings of a zombie apocalypse.

Of course, I will readily admit that even a person with such symptoms isn't entirely a zombie, as they might still retain their memories, and a pater from the hyper violence, some sort of possible morality/social connection. If there were such a disease which could erase or degenerate such things, then we would have something much like a zombie.

So it is feasible, if unlikely.