***Before your read my comment, know that I am not complaining about any of the scores, I'm giving my opinion on somethings <3***
"realisticly"
That right there might kill a lot of people. I understand having the right physics for Ice, but the execution of the combo is also a big thing. The way some people animate wont make the combo realistic alot. Tention for example, he may make the ice physics perfectly, but being realistic with the combo itself is out of the question. xP I might be misunderstanding what you mean by realistic because a lot of people plan to go all out on their combo but if we'll get judged down for going over the top then I may need help understanding realism.
Also this is something that im curious on:
I am okay with Terks winning. And his score seems accurate.
But sometimes I feel that people let Terks fame effect their score. Im not accusing you guys of this, but when I look at the other entries and compare some to Terks I feel some were downvoted a little too much and that terk gets a 10 for him also being famed not just his animation. Once again I think his final score was pretty accurate i'm just giving my input. Nice job on round 1, better luck next time everyone!
BSE Version 4 Round 1: Ice to Meet You
Started by: oxob3000 | Replies: 630 | Views: 68,487 | Closed
Jun 26, 2012 1:40 PM #685005
Jun 26, 2012 3:43 PM #685025
Quote from PinThe way some people animate wont make the combo realistic alot.
I'm not saying every single move should be strictly realistic, especially if it's at the expense of an animator's style.
What I'm saying is, animating a kick by just having the figure fly through the air is lazy in a contest like this, at least compared to people who tried to create anticipation, tension/release, momentum, weight, etc. and have it all accurately portrayed on top of a slippery surface. One might look better than the other in terms of entertainment value, but that seems pretty irrelevant in a competition focusing on animation talent.
I really don't mean to bitch, I'm just trying to make this fair. I'm still amazed that oxob actually criticized an animation for not having special effects, when nothing in the combo required it. This is stick figure animation, for fuck's sake, not dragonball-z.
edit: yeah, you know, this isn't my contest. just giving my opinion, didn't mean to argue or anything. run it however you want
Jun 26, 2012 3:45 PM #685027
The Judge who gives the 2nd scores is a tough cookie.
Jun 26, 2012 3:47 PM #685029
dammit my score sucks! Any way i must say i worked on this first bse very quickly, took me only 2 hours, but round 2 i've already started working and i must say it looks great til now.
Jun 26, 2012 3:51 PM #685032
but seriously, everyone knew that terkoiz would win. it's really not fair. He's a pro, and most of the people on this site are intermediate level.
Jun 26, 2012 3:59 PM #685034
Why did Terkoiz win?
His anim was by far the most favorited, but I don't see how different it is from the other animations.
The point of having the ice was so that you could use that variable to your advantage, or to have a disadvantage no?
And we were supposed to show the affect of ice while fighting
the only attacks from the combo that were actually using the ice were the stomp and the throw and the kick,
I don't really see the intro slide as a part of the combo. nor did I see the elbow or the punch affected by the ice.
I may be a little cynical, because I feel that Terkoiz won not only because of his animation.
but because he's a favorite, and the judges may have some bias for some of the animators.
Or i'm just jealous. But idk. my point stands to reason.
His anim was by far the most favorited, but I don't see how different it is from the other animations.
The point of having the ice was so that you could use that variable to your advantage, or to have a disadvantage no?
And we were supposed to show the affect of ice while fighting
the only attacks from the combo that were actually using the ice were the stomp and the throw and the kick,
I don't really see the intro slide as a part of the combo. nor did I see the elbow or the punch affected by the ice.
I may be a little cynical, because I feel that Terkoiz won not only because of his animation.
but because he's a favorite, and the judges may have some bias for some of the animators.
Or i'm just jealous. But idk. my point stands to reason.
Jun 26, 2012 4:41 PM #685055
Quote from ExilementI think in the context of a stick figure animation contest, this is absolutely ridiculous. None of those things have anything to do with stick figure animating. animating different angles should ADD to a score, but nobody should be faulted for not using multiple angles considering how short these combos are.
I disagree that terkoiz's combo was all that great. the last kick didn't even happen on-screen. hell it wasn't even a combo, in terms of each move seamlessly following the previous one. I don't see any realistic ice physics either, running and then jumping on ice doesn't make you slide 50 mph for several hundred feet.
it really is a great animation, I don't think terkoiz did anything wrong and I feel bad for criticizing him, but it's a good example of how ridiculous the judging is. it's unfair to some very good animators who didn't catch the judges' attention by wasting time on "special effects" and other unnecessary extras. I can't believe you guys fault someone for just focusing on animating stick figures, considering it's the purpose of this entire community.
maybe I'm just a purist, I dunno.
I'm not saying that it's WRONG to not add angles or specialeffects. It depends on what is the most entertaining. There are those who choose to focus completley on 2 dimensions and to make the movements as smooth and perfect as possible (like me) and there are others who choose to take it a step further and to add angles and specialeffects. Nothing says that a stickfight can't have those things, and that is mostley what the audience wants to see. I'd say, do what you can to impress the judges, and do that while animating the special element aswell. I love to see people do something new and orcourse it adds to the score if you animate angles and specialeffects.
Jun 26, 2012 4:42 PM #685058
I'm gonna have to fully agree with Exilement. Everything he said actually makes a lot of sense. Terkoiz won mostly because of fame. Judges seen his name and said,that's 10/10 and then they saw his animation. They were amazed by his effects,angles,music sync,...everything. They were so amazed that they forgot this was competition in which you have to execute specifically given combos and special elements. If Terkoiz gave in animation from Kixx and Kixx from Terkoiz, Terk would've won again. Terkoiz gets 10 points just for being called Terkoiz.
Jun 26, 2012 4:52 PM #685061
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. No-single answer will ever make all groups 100% satisfied. However, I feel the judges did a fine job and phils was one of my personal favorites. He sense of how slick the slippery the floor was was absolutely astounding, and that final drop kick into the surface was delicious.
Not to mention those sound, oh boy.
Not to mention those sound, oh boy.
Jun 26, 2012 5:13 PM #685070
He didn't actually show that much of "slippery" effect, while comparing it to Flax. All Terk did was - angle,static stickfigure,angle,static stickfigure,jump? On the throw part, Terk just used - overpowered throw, stickfigure rolling(as it would on ground),finish? Hey,look at that,no slippery effect yet again.Quote from stoneHe sense of how slick the slippery the floor was was absolutely astounding
Quote from stoneNot to mention those sound, oh boy.
Quote from StrikeThey were amazed by his effects,angles,music sync,...everything. They were so amazed that they forgot this was competition in which you have to execute specifically given combos and special elements.
Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong. It's true that everyone has their own opinion and sense of justice/realism. Therefore,there's this middle part when pure logic can come in handy.
Jun 26, 2012 5:15 PM #685072
Quote from oxob3000I'm not saying that it's WRONG to not add angles or specialeffects.
...yeah, you are, that's exactly what you said:
Quote from oxob3000But he had no soundeffects, no specialeffects and no angles. This is what brought down his score.
Giving a few extra points to people who "take it a step further" and add extra stuff, that's one thing, but you make it sound like a perfect 10 score is functionally impossible without doing so. That seems a little weird to me.
Jun 26, 2012 5:19 PM #685073
yeah I have to agree, these "add ons" are meant to boost the person's score by only a little bit, but not a lot.
Jun 26, 2012 5:45 PM #685083
Well, the scores have been chosen so there's nothing really we can do now. Unless these animations are judged again according to the community so everyone thinks the scores are fair. Or something like that.
Jun 26, 2012 5:57 PM #685093
Guys, you do realize that the exact arguments you are making about scores being based on fame can be backed up for the exact opposing side? Saying that you're looking at someones fame as something that pre-determines them as a winner before you watch the animation. Therefore taking a pessimistic outlook on their animation. From there, you form a pre-determined opinion on the animation and automatically give it a 'lower score' in your head, even if you aren't a judge that directly effects the score.
If you believe that adding fx, angles, music, sfx and other 'extras' should only 'slightly' add to your score. Then your telling me that when someone spends 15 minutes on their part with the bare bones animations that they are due the chance at a 10/10 simply because they adequately animated the attacks as requested under the given circumstances?
BSE is all about creativity. The score IS based upon how WELL you showcase the moves under whatever circumstance is given with the combo. ADDING things to your animation DOES improve the score directly because it showcases your ability to take the topic and put an interesting and unique spin on it utilizing all the skills you in your arsenal. The 'extras' in BSE is what MAKES BSE. We aren't asking people to animate the exact combo in the most plain way possible and follow it 100% to the tee. We're asking to take the combo, animate it in the most entertaining, and creative way possible.
You can disagree with the judges is fine, but to claim that they are just playing favorites is just as valid as saying that you are playing against the favorites under the assumption that they are going to win regardless because of their fame.
Regardless, congratulations to the winners and there is 9 more rounds to prove your spot as the top BSE competitor. Good luck :P
If you believe that adding fx, angles, music, sfx and other 'extras' should only 'slightly' add to your score. Then your telling me that when someone spends 15 minutes on their part with the bare bones animations that they are due the chance at a 10/10 simply because they adequately animated the attacks as requested under the given circumstances?
BSE is all about creativity. The score IS based upon how WELL you showcase the moves under whatever circumstance is given with the combo. ADDING things to your animation DOES improve the score directly because it showcases your ability to take the topic and put an interesting and unique spin on it utilizing all the skills you in your arsenal. The 'extras' in BSE is what MAKES BSE. We aren't asking people to animate the exact combo in the most plain way possible and follow it 100% to the tee. We're asking to take the combo, animate it in the most entertaining, and creative way possible.
You can disagree with the judges is fine, but to claim that they are just playing favorites is just as valid as saying that you are playing against the favorites under the assumption that they are going to win regardless because of their fame.
Regardless, congratulations to the winners and there is 9 more rounds to prove your spot as the top BSE competitor. Good luck :P
Jun 26, 2012 6:00 PM #685097
Quote from stoneGuys, you do realize that the exact arguments you are making about scores being based on fame can be backed up for the exact opposing side? Saying that you're looking at someones fame as something that pre-determines them as a winner before you watch the animation. Therefore taking a pessimistic outlook on their animation. From there, you form a pre-determined opinion on the animation and automatically give it a 'lower score' in your head, even if you aren't a judge that directly effects the score.
If you believe that adding fx, angles, music, sfx and other 'extras' should only 'slightly' add to your score. Then your telling me that when someone spends 15 minutes on their part with the bare bones animations that they are due the chance at a 10/10 simply because they adequately animated the attacks as requested under the given circumstances?
BSE is all about creativity. The score IS based upon how WELL you showcase the moves under whatever circumstance is given with the combo. ADDING things to your animation DOES improve the score directly because it showcases your ability to take the topic and put an interesting and unique spin on it utilizing all the skills you in your arsenal. The 'extras' in BSE is what MAKES BSE. We aren't asking people to animate the exact combo in the most plain way possible and follow it 100% to the tee. We're asking to take the combo, animate it in the most entertaining, and creative way possible.
You can disagree with the judges is fine, but to claim that they are just playing favorites is just as valid as saying that you are playing against the favorites under the assumption that they are going to win regardless because of their fame.
Regardless, congratulations to the winners and there is 9 more rounds to prove your spot as the top BSE competitor. Good luck :P
yeah... ditto