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Devil's advocate (religious debate, proceed with caution)

Started by: Exile | Replies: 220 | Views: 13,074

Mikematic
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Jun 23, 2012 8:33 PM #683388
Uhg, your opinion can't even be an opinion in these things. -_-'
Anyway, i've already said my stuff.
But can I ask a question?
Why is it, that anything-itest always tend to be so rude and mean? (Not saying that all of them are, just my opinion.)
I mean they always act so..... You know.... Like there right, and there superior to you.
Hellsing

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Jun 23, 2012 9:20 PM #683429
A test which it seems 4 billion people are pre-destined to fail. Assuming the correct response to the test is, in your view, to become Christian, then your argument implies either (a) Arabians are stupid and incapable of passing tests or (b) Arabians are massively handicapped in the test because they've been born in the wrong place and brought up wrong. Either way portrays your god as a cunt.

I wish you would ask me what religion I follow before assuming I am a christian and calling God a "cunt." My argument doesn't imply anything that you think it is implying. If a person has not come in contact with the religion in their lifetime, then god will judge them accordingly to their deeds in life. Again, please don't assume, it makes you seem like a total idiot when what you've assumed isn't anything close to the truth.
Fusion
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Jun 23, 2012 9:34 PM #683455
Assuming someone is a Christian based on the fact that they're using Christian rhetoric, and the fact that Christianity is the largest religion in the world by the hundreds of millions makes you an idiot? Not quite. He doesn't need to ask if you are Christian, because "Life is a test" is a tenant of Christian beliefs.
Zed
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Jun 23, 2012 9:48 PM #683466
Quote from Hellsing
I wish you would ask me what religion I follow before assuming I am a christian and calling God a "cunt." My argument doesn't imply anything that you think it is implying. If a person has not come in contact with the religion in their lifetime, then god will judge them accordingly to their deeds in life. Again, please don't assume, it makes you seem like a total idiot when what you've assumed isn't anything close to the truth.


So we come to Raynmetal's point where anyone spreading the word of God is condemning his listeners to hell. Especially when the word in question is literally a book which provides no more evidence than scientology. If a person is exposed to your beliefs and refuses to accept them because he has been exposed to dozens of similar beliefs with no reason to accept one over the other then you submit him to an eternity of torture. That hardly seems fair.

Also, you'll notice I included some small print in my original post saying that my specific argument was valid if, and only if, you believed what I thought it most probable that you believed. I stand by that. And more importantly, it doesn't even matter which religion you follow. I gave you an example which holds if you are Christian, but the same example is just as sound if you happen to be Muslim and we swap Christian and Muslim in each instance. Same with Hindu, Jainism, Zoroastrianism, and so on. I gave a generic example which relies not on what religion you may be, but on the fact that religions are concentrated in different areas of the world. A fact which is undeniable.
Hellsing

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Jun 23, 2012 9:51 PM #683468
With the argument he comes up with is heavily based on his assumption that i am a christian, and I'm not, it makes it seem rather foolish, anyway I predict this argument will not go anywhere, so let's agree to disagree. I'm new here, so I don't want to be making any enemies, have fun with the debate for the rest of you. Sorry if I have offended anyone. :)
Zed
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Jun 23, 2012 9:57 PM #683475
Everything I posted since then is against someone else (minus my last post). The only one I made in response to you could just as well have been made against any specific denomination (although if you're a deist I'll want to be sober before I respond to you properly).

Don't worry about offending people. RawGreen's a creationist and I still love him for his animations :)
Exile
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Jun 23, 2012 10:28 PM #683483
Quote from Mikematic
Why is it, that anything-itest always tend to be so rude and mean? (Not saying that all of them are, just my opinion.)
I mean they always act so..... You know.... Like there right, and there superior to you.


People are assholes, it's not something unique to a specific belief. Most of the atheists I know don't give a shit what other people believe.
walker90234

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Jun 24, 2012 7:40 PM #684018
Quote from Zed
(although if you're a deist I'll want to be sober before I respond to you properly).


I was unsure whether you were still studying philosophy at uni, or had finished your degree yet.
I have just been confirmed of the former :P
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Jul 9, 2012 1:06 PM #693683
Hello there I'm Muslim And I'm totally against Atheist belief, but not to the point were I would kill them or something, I'm not crazy guys. I'm on Exilement's side of this debate. I don't really get you Atheists not believing in god. It's only this: Worship god, become a good person, and at the end go to heaven, nothing more. That doesn't mean not believing in science and not enjoying life. It has even been discovered in the recent years since people are more knowlegable that the Quran, the holy book of Islam contains verses that lead to scientific facts. I also encourages learning and discovering. And maybe even the bible and other religous books has stuff like that but i don't know. It's simple: Do your duties towards god and become a good person then do whatever you want in life as long as it doesn't break any rules.
Zed
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Jul 9, 2012 1:10 PM #693685
Quote from Ahmad9383
It's only this: Worship god, become a good person, and at the end go to heaven, nothing more. That doesn't mean not believing in science and not enjoying life.


I enjoy bacon. Therefore, following your religion would lower my quality of life. Therefore, I should not follow your religion unless there are some grounds for doing so. One man saying "this is what is right; God told me," 1400 years ago is not evidence - it is no better than Scientology.

On the Qu'ran containing scientific facts: were the facts proved by science before or after people decided that this was how to interpret those verses? Or were the verses ambiguous enough that whatever the truth was they could claim to be it? Show me a passage where it says "and water shall be made of two atoms of hydrogen and one oxygen, and thou shalt knowest when thou hast hydrogen for it shall be the atom with only one electron".
Exile
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Jul 9, 2012 3:10 PM #693799
Quote from Ahmad9383
I don't really get you Atheists not believing in god. It's only this: Worship god, become a good person, and at the end go to heaven, nothing more.


I don't believe in god and I don't believe in heaven. What's not to get?
VToon2886
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Jul 9, 2012 4:29 PM #693849
Satan exists! I saw him with my own eyes in Doctor Who!
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Jul 9, 2012 4:38 PM #693862
Quote from Exilement
I don't believe in god and I don't believe in heaven. What's not to get?

I don't get why they think so.
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Jul 9, 2012 4:46 PM #693871
Quote from Zed
I enjoy bacon. Therefore, following your religion would lower my quality of life. Therefore, I should not follow your religion unless there are some grounds for doing so. One man saying "this is what is right; God told me," 1400 years ago is not evidence - it is no better than Scientology.

On the Qu'ran containing scientific facts: were the facts proved by science before or after people decided that this was how to interpret those verses? Or were the verses ambiguous enough that whatever the truth was they could claim to be it? Show me a passage where it says "and water shall be made of two atoms of hydrogen and one oxygen, and thou shalt knowest when thou hast hydrogen for it shall be the atom with only one electron".

I didn't ask anyone to join my religion right now, although there are many reasons you should.
anyway about the facts.
First they were not straightforward facts, they require some looking into. Second. There are many ways you can interpret a verse. This depends on the period of time your living in. Third. most of these facts were already known recently, but when looking into the quran they noticed that these facts were somehow expressed in the verses themselves, and the quran is about 1400 years old, which proves god exists and made this book because these are facts humans could not have known at all at this time.

Oh Btw there's bacon that's made from beef :)
VToon2886
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Jul 9, 2012 5:08 PM #693891
@Ahmad, what?

Back to the OP. Some people and ideas are deserving of mockery. Sometimes, it would simply be a helpless endeavor to try to change someone's mind about something, and other times we just don't want to spend the effort to; mockery is the easier and fun answer. Being critical of people is part of widespread cynicism and pessimism that many atheists have. It's justified by our views of society, our experiences at large, and primarily on an individual basis on an emotional rather than logical level.
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