Quote from Fallen

How can you call somebody a simpleton when you're the ignorant fuck that can't enjoy a story or art?

When did I say that? You call me ignorant but if you actually read my post before insulting me, I never said I disliked stories or art.

this guy is the reason why the gaming industry is fucking dying

Yeah, how the fuck is the gaming industry dying exactly?

And they all have far more effort and thought put into them than anything like call of duty or halo or whatever bullshit you play.

No, you've got the wrong idea here.

I'll list off a few games that are -in my opinion- awesome:
Starcraft 2
CS:S/CS:GO
WoW (pre cata)
DayZ
Planetside

Campaign games are usually just pushed out for quick cash, but with these games the developers had to actually think about the longevity of the game, there's usually endless tweaking and updates to them.

Single player games actually withstand the test of time and develop followings. Games that rely solely on multiplayer are irrelevant as soon as the next comes out.

That's just completely untrue though, look at CS1.6: there was still a big competitive scene long after CS:S came out. Look at SC: Brood War, there was people still living off playing Brood War an entire 16 months after SC2 came out, let alone the people playing in their basements. Look at Diablo 2, still people persisted to play it (and the scene probably grew) after D3 came out, that's ~12 years after d2 released.

'Single player games actually withstand the test of time and develop followings.' No, they don't, gaming franchises in single player games will develop followings. If you make a 'great' single player game, people will demand fucking more because they'll be done with your single player game in 2 days, now let's say you state you have no intention of making a sequel to your game. Bam, you now have no following, people just play your game for the 2 days worth of content, then move on.

Quote from jake1002

'Single player games actually withstand the test of time and develop followings.' No, they don't, gaming franchises in single player games will develop followings. If you make a 'great' single player game, people will demand fucking more because they'll be done with your single player game in 2 days, now let's say you state you have no intention of making a sequel to your game. Bam, you now have no following, people just play your game for the 2 days worth of content, then move on.

Why are you assuming that Single player=small game? That doesn't make any sense.

Quote from Fusion

Why are you assuming that Single player=small game? That doesn't make any sense.

There is only so much content a single player game can have without it not being worth it for the company, you aren't getting any income whilst you are producing the game. Most campaigns are under 50 hours. There are some exceptions, but really that's the bottom line.

Not trying to get into the bru-ha-ha
But junk has been said about a bunch of good games here.
Majority of Naruto games, I have atleast played exceed expectations.
Don't see why you guys hate Final Fantasy so much, Crisis Core wasn't too bad. And I hear they came out with a new one.
Modern day sonic, I know you arn't talking about dat Sonic Generations, or that Sonic Adventure 2
COD And Halo fude, I mean theres not reason to hate either, its based on taste, there 2 different genres, in my opinion they are both epic.

Single player games are just as good as multiplayer games. The story usually lasts longer, and its a more enjoyable play, on income basis, they would only make money on normal things. But the game itself 9 time out of 10 is a very addictive and fun play.


That's just my 2 cent on some opinions ive been seeing.

But for the sake of Art, Singleplayer takes the cake.

Multiplayer is simply shoving together 20 to 30 guns, adding about ten attachments per gun, and then setting each gun about ten levels away from each other. Multiplayer is simply grinding through levels on maybe eight or nine maps over and over again. There's no space for art in there.

But then take the singleplayer.
You are treated to the developer's mind, and you see the world through his eyes. You get to see massive vistas, and emark upon epic quests.

I, for one, really liked the BF3 campaign. It was intense, and a good ride all the way through. Of course, I prefer the multiplayer, but that's only because that's what the game was built for. Like, for example, take your list.

Starcraft 2
CS:S/CS:GO No Conventional SP
WoW (pre cata) No SP
DayZ No Conventional SP
Planetside No SP

Only one of those games has a single-player, and it's not so much a single-player as it is a PvP match against another bot with various mutators. Play Half-Life, or maybe Super Mario Brothers, which created a completely new, and really long game that constantly introduced players to new scenarios and situations at every turn, and the difficulty didn't come from button-mashing or overpowered enemies, but rather due to difficulty of the concept.

Starfox Adventures. Seriously, I hated it.
My reasons are probably just for being a massive Starfox fan, as most of us know, are mostly space-shooters.
Adventures was way off of what you'd expect it to be, I looked at the cover and think:
"Hey, looks fun, maybe an awesome blend of ground combat and space battles?"
The only times you're in space is:
-A shitty way to enter the level by collecting rings to enter the planet atmosphere (why the fuck do I have to do this bull-shit anyway?)
-A shitty re-creation of 64's battle with Andross (despite until this last fucking fight, the main enemy is supposed to be General Scales, why change it at the last minute? Speaking of which, Andross was never mentioned in the game, I was expecting the last boss to be something new and awesome, but no, it had to be Andross, again...)
Another problem is the staff fighting, it makes no scene why Fox wasnt allowed to bring his blaster with him (he even says in the game), Assault made ground combat much more fun with the use of fire-arm weaponry.
And fucking Tricky, god what a fucking waste of time he was, when you find a good time for him to be useful, he always fucking refuses because he's hungry, so you waste time looking for fucking food for the greedy fucker to eat, what a pain.
Another thing I didnt get was Falco not ring in the game until the ending fight (a he does is give you bombs anyway to fire at Andross), why did he leave anyway?
Was a good thing that Starfox: Assault came out after, but at least they tried to give the series something new.

any mario and sonic olympic game
everytime i see them its like, Go home everybody, the olympics are officially ruined

Quote from Captain Cook

But for the sake of Art, Singleplayer takes the cake.

There's great art in multiplayer games too.. TERA and Planetside 2 for example are amazing looking games. DotA 2 has it's own unique art style too.

Multiplayer is simply shoving together 20 to 30 guns, adding about ten attachments per gun, and then setting each gun about ten levels away from each other. Multiplayer is simply grinding through levels on maybe eight or nine maps over and over again. There's no space for art in there.

Yes, every single console multiplayer is like this, but this is a fucking giant generalisation even then. If you want good games, you get a PC.. take DayZ for instance, the map is 225km^2, based in a zombie infested world, the player interactions make the game; if you see another survivor do you team up with him to survive? shoot on sight? swap supplies and move on?

Starcraft 2
CS:S/CS:GO No Conventional SP
WoW (pre cata) No SP
DayZ No Conventional SP
Planetside No SP

Only one of those games has a single-player, and it's not so much a single-player as it is a PvP match against another bot with various mutators. Play Half-Life, or maybe Super Mario Brothers, which created a completely new, and really long game that constantly introduced players to new scenarios and situations at every turn, and the difficulty didn't come from button-mashing or overpowered enemies, but rather due to difficulty of the concept.

Right, I said I don't really like single player games, so that's why the list has no SP. These are the games I enjoyed the most. if you want a difficult game don't even fucking try to suggest playing mario games, if you want an actual challenge then play Starcraft 2, the metagame constantly evolves and you have to adapt to your situation because your actually playing against someone who's conscious, not just some scripted events. You can't call Half-Life a difficult game, if you found it challenging that really just means you have bad hand-to-eye coordination.

Ravenholm with only the Gravity Gun? That's pretty hard.

But it's generally accepted that withing the Singleplayer constraints of a game, the developer can explore many more aspects and topics than in a multiplayer scenario.

Quote from Captain Cook

But it's generally accepted that withing the Singleplayer constraints of a game, the developer can explore many more aspects and topics than in a multiplayer scenario.

No, that's also completely untrue, it's not 'generally accepted' in any regard. Look at Portal 2 for example, you play the singleplayer. Now you play co-op, there are a lot of new aspects the designer can use in the game now that there is 2 players. For example one could solve a puzzle to get inside a room whilst the other has to redirect lasers so they don't hit his partner. Everything that can be done in single player can also be done in a multiplayer game, even if instancing is needed for clientsided battles etc.

And look at the single-player of Portal 2. Gels and everything. Look at countless indie games.

Quote from Captain Cook

And look at the single-player of Portal 2. Gels and everything. Look at countless indie games.

What are you trying to prove? Yes, there's gels in single player, there's also gels in multiplayer.. but you're trying to make a point that more can be done in single player, remember?

yes. Singleplayer opens itself to more cinematic experiences, and generally, a story is much better told in SP than MP.

Quote from Captain Cook

yes. Singleplayer opens itself to more cinematic experiences, and generally, a story is much better told in SP than MP.

Okay, but that does not mean

withing the Singleplayer constraints of a game, the developer can explore many more aspects and topics than in a multiplayer scenario.

that statement is just wrong, you'll admit that right?

Hell no, man. Singleplayer experiences can go way farther than Multiplayer games, since they don't have to worry about latency or balance of weapons or anything.