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Why is Individualism so Heavily Pursued?

Started by: GZento | Replies: 26 | Views: 2,560

GZento
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Aug 28, 2012 5:53 PM #728306
I recently started reading up on Henry David Theroux, Ralph Waldo Emerson, and his other cronies to catch up on some long forgotten english courses. I started to remember why these guys piss me off. They preach so much about nonconformity yet they've all conformed to a group of nonconformists. Trolololo. Anyways, it made me think, and reflect on the importance of individuality and the prominent obsession of it exhibited by those of the "hipster" movement, with everything being too mainstream. Why care? why cant people just find their group of friends without worrying about whats too mainstream or non mainstream.

I have two questions, does anyone here think it is impossible to experience a 100% pure form of individuality?
And why(in your opinion) do you think we as a socially responsive species are inclined to pursue it so vehemently?
walker90234

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Aug 28, 2012 6:49 PM #728345
I'm going to recommend a reading list:
1) J.S. Mill's On Liberty (gotta love that book, TOP PRIORITY!)
2) George Orwell's 1984 (assuming you haven't already read that)
3) Aldous Huxley's Brave New World (perhaps the best example when coupled with Mill's stuff)

Those, when combined, really support the importance of individuality. I highly recommend them (brilliant books in and of themselves anyway)
GZento
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Aug 28, 2012 7:19 PM #728358
I'm not asking why we can't have a socialist totalitarian lifestyle in which everyone likes the same thing, I'm not a socialist, I'm just amazed that some people really feel that they are their own, when in all actuality, aren't we all who we are now because of external influences we've allowed to sway us? and I feel that it is the case, and so we are all only a compilation of multiple different opinions and people with no true originality, Brave New World is a very extreme example to counter with, my reasoning is far lower than global political level. My questions have more so to do with what entertains us, concerning music and artistry. I feel it can be important to have individuality, but examples in a brave new world such as having one's own family, having some quiet time lone, building relationships, everyone can do these things, in fact our society promotes having friends, going out, getting jobs, getting married, then having kids. My mother frowns upon homosexuals because her christian views tell we're supposed to reproduce and be plenty, but homosexuals have no capability of doing so and are therefore sinful. Individual freedoms are extremely important, but these silly new forms of individuality and cultural movements of being "too mainstream" are what really vex me. The idea that you are morally and socially elite because no one else listens to the same band, reads the same comics, watches the same shows, practices the same hobbies as yourself. I feel that for one to achieve true individuality, you'd have to lock yourself in a box so you wouldn't be able to find other people with the same views as yourself.

EDIT: The fact that you recommended these books shows that you were influenced by the writers who made them, and that you agree with them, yes, you made a choice as an individual to read them, yes you made a choice as an individual to be influenced by the opinions expressed in them, but the fact that you carry yet another person's ideas with you that aren't your own contradicts the idea that you are in fact an individual, that you are one of a kind. You are another "individual" who has conformed to this persons ideas, which is fine, I believe individual RIGHTS are important also, the things that define us as "special" or, different from everybody else arent really all that special at all, and so I return to my first question, why pursue it? it is impossible, so why let this thing called individuality sway your every decision? why not just intuitively make your decisions by what you're attracted to rather than what is "non mainstream"?
walker90234

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Aug 28, 2012 7:32 PM #728372
Oh, I entirely agree with you on that point; individuality is important, and people should be allowed to be individual (seriously, read Mill, he's amazing) however this whole trying to be non-conformist is stupid.
Furthermore, it's entirely paradoxical:
a) People try and be individual because they consider it will make them come across as 'cool', and say 'hey I'm non-conformist' because it's 'cool'.
b) In order for something to make you appear 'cool' it has to come across as 'cool' to other people.
c) People in general try to do what is 'cool' (at least all those who are convinced of the importance of coming across as 'cool')
d) Therefore if non-conformity is 'cool' then everyone will try do things they consider 'non-conformist'
e) When everyone tries to be 'non-conformist' the very meaning of the word fails

That's my opinion anyway.
GZento
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Aug 28, 2012 7:35 PM #728374
Quote from walker90234

e) When everyone tries to be 'non-conformist' the very meaning of the word fails

That's my opinion anyway.


Case in point exactly, and so, why do we continue to pursue it when social individuality is impossible?
walker90234

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Aug 28, 2012 7:42 PM #728378
Wizards first rule: people are stupid
Amadeus
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Aug 28, 2012 8:01 PM #728382
I don't pursue individuality vehemently, I recognize that as a species we are all very much alike and trying to deviate is simply working against what we are :) Plus if you act like a hipster you're an idiot.
Exile
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Aug 28, 2012 8:12 PM #728384
Quote from GZento
the fact that you carry yet another person's ideas with you that aren't your own contradicts the idea that you are in fact an individual, that you are one of a kind.


Not really, unless you define "individuality" as someone who only holds 100% original ideas and generally lives, thinks and behaves in a manner that's completely unlike any human who's ever lived. I think that's a little unrealistic, don't you?

I'd say your experiences, beliefs and knowledge as a whole are sufficient to set you apart from everyone else as an individual. No one else shares your individual perception or has gone through identical life experiences, and in that aspect you are an individual.
GZento
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Aug 28, 2012 8:21 PM #728392
Quote from Exilement
Not really, unless you define "individuality" as someone who only holds 100% original ideas and generally lives, thinks and behaves in a manner that's completely unlike any human who's ever lived. I think that's a little unrealistic, don't you?

I'd say your experiences, beliefs and knowledge as a whole are sufficient to set you apart from everyone else as an individual. No one else shares your individual perception or has gone through identical life experiences, and in that aspect you are an individual.


There are over several billion people on this earth, to believe that there isn't a fraction of a chance of someone with the same knowledge, experiences, and perceptions as yourself existing seems impossible
walker90234

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Aug 28, 2012 8:25 PM #728394
In order for that to happen they'd have to have:
a) the same genetic makeup as you
b) the same EXACT set of experiences to you (In order for this to be the case there'd have to be a duplicate of every event which occurred in your life happening to them)
I don't really see either of these happening. In order for someone to be identical to you, they have to literally BE you. Even twins, brought up in the same house with the same DNA can turn out wildly different - in order for there to be a duplicate, they can't just have similar experiences, such experiences must be IDENTICAL.
GZento
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Aug 28, 2012 8:58 PM #728416
Quote from walker90234
In order for that to happen they'd have to have:
a) the same genetic makeup as you


genetic make up does not decide what moral choices one makes nor does it decide what they will experience, nor does it decide ones moral perception of life. The environments and people that we are surrounded by and born into are merely decided by chance and so who's to say that there arent any other people who went through the exact same experiences and came to the same conclusive reasoning as yourself even if in different periods of time and/or in another country?

Quote from Exhilement;
Not really, unless you define "individuality" as someone who only holds 100% original ideas and generally lives, thinks and behaves in a manner that's completely unlike any human who's ever lived. I think that's a little unrealistic, don't you?


I've already stated its impossible in my first statement
Fusion
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Aug 28, 2012 10:10 PM #728453
Quote from GZento
genetic make up does not decide what moral choices one makes nor does it decide what they will experience, nor does it decide ones moral perception of life.

That's debatable. Some would argue that genetic makeup plays a large role in choices of that kind.
Myself

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Aug 29, 2012 12:46 AM #728584
Quote from GZento
There are over several billion people on this earth, to believe that there isn't a fraction of a chance of someone with the same knowledge, experiences, and perceptions as yourself existing seems impossible


The amount and variation of experiences people have throughout their life is immense, so much so that it would be impossible for someone else to have the exact same experience.
2-D
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Aug 29, 2012 6:05 AM #728688
im an individual because i try to be myself, just like everyone else! and because tv is constantly berating it upon you
GZento
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Aug 29, 2012 6:10 AM #728691
Quote from Myself
The amount and variation of experiences people have throughout their life is immense, so much so that it would be impossible for someone else to have the exact same experience.


True, true

Quote from 2-D;
im an individual because i try to be myself, just like everyone else! and because tv is constantly berating it upon you


True, true
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