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Started by: CRAZY JAY | Replies: 2,627 | Views: 253,026 | Sticky
May 13, 2014 10:29 PM #1195032
ROFL gloriousavenger. Nevermind then, no reason to argue with such a massive rager.
May 13, 2014 10:33 PM #1195034
I enjoy the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem , since, again, you all say provide facts, then when I do, um... um... um... yep.
Order is nerfed, the premiums are overpowered, the toplists and basic analysis show this, and the games player base is shrinking from what many players have reported. Even EE players have said in this forum that it is OP, WYZ has reported the OP burn issue for chaos and EE, and other strats are being developed that allow EE to basically be unbeatable.
But again, I doubt anyone is going to do anything about it, since anytime anyone brings this up, you all shout them down with typical fallacies and other fails,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
Order is nerfed, the premiums are overpowered, the toplists and basic analysis show this, and the games player base is shrinking from what many players have reported. Even EE players have said in this forum that it is OP, WYZ has reported the OP burn issue for chaos and EE, and other strats are being developed that allow EE to basically be unbeatable.
But again, I doubt anyone is going to do anything about it, since anytime anyone brings this up, you all shout them down with typical fallacies and other fails,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
May 13, 2014 10:36 PM #1195035
The burn issue I very much agree with. However, elementals are NOT unbeatable. I beat elementals with order all the time. Before tree nerf they could not at all break a turtle and now after tree nerf nothing short of a fire start sweep is possible for them really.
EDIT: We should take this to PMs or something. This thread isn't really for this.
EDIT: We should take this to PMs or something. This thread isn't really for this.
May 13, 2014 10:51 PM #1195041
Then why, if you are correct, is order not just somewhat, but massively underrepresented on the toplists? With chaos, unit by unit chaos is marginally to significantly better than order units, and then having all units self heal makes that even worse disparity in close matches as order has to eat up gold, mana and population space just to heal or survive... whereas chaos, whom pretty mcuh always already holds the center, just has to retreat.
Chaos especially now that they can do massive burn and poison damage is even worse than ever before, and order poison for magikill was nerfed so the wings of chaos are pretty much unstoppable.
Again, you say provide facts, I do, and then, you don't answer them, because, as others have told me privately, they are correct. The premiums have clear advantages over order, especially some of the newer ways EE can be exploited.
This is exactly the thread. it is about suggestions for improvement. You want a vibrant game community, balance the game, make order a viable empire, fix the kiting issue that drives newer player away and the OP issue of the premiums that drive new players and old players away.
Heck, maybe even allow players to opt out of ranking entirely into a different league of play so new players can have an opportunity to learn the game before having to deal with people with advanced skills.
See, that is the biggy, I care not about my rank or what people think of me, but I truly think this is a great game that will languish needlessly under poor management and decision making.
Chaos especially now that they can do massive burn and poison damage is even worse than ever before, and order poison for magikill was nerfed so the wings of chaos are pretty much unstoppable.
Again, you say provide facts, I do, and then, you don't answer them, because, as others have told me privately, they are correct. The premiums have clear advantages over order, especially some of the newer ways EE can be exploited.
This is exactly the thread. it is about suggestions for improvement. You want a vibrant game community, balance the game, make order a viable empire, fix the kiting issue that drives newer player away and the OP issue of the premiums that drive new players and old players away.
Heck, maybe even allow players to opt out of ranking entirely into a different league of play so new players can have an opportunity to learn the game before having to deal with people with advanced skills.
See, that is the biggy, I care not about my rank or what people think of me, but I truly think this is a great game that will languish needlessly under poor management and decision making.
May 14, 2014 12:35 AM #1195060
Bold: Wait what. A new league? I don't see how that's helpful. Besides you can always train against other players in non-ranked games as well as fighting against the CPU empires.Quote from sorrowandsadnessThen why, if you are correct, is order not just somewhat, but massively underrepresented on the toplists? With chaos, unit by unit chaos is marginally to significantly better than order units, and then having all units self heal makes that even worse disparity in close matches as order has to eat up gold, mana and population space just to heal or survive... whereas chaos, whom pretty mcuh always already holds the center, just has to retreat.
Chaos especially now that they can do massive burn and poison damage is even worse than ever before, and order poison for magikill was nerfed so the wings of chaos are pretty much unstoppable.
Again, you say provide facts, I do, and then, you don't answer them, because, as others have told me privately, they are correct. The premiums have clear advantages over order, especially some of the newer ways EE can be exploited.
This is exactly the thread. it is about suggestions for improvement. You want a vibrant game community, balance the game, make order a viable empire, fix the kiting issue that drives newer player away and the OP issue of the premiums that drive new players and old players away.
Heck, maybe even allow players to opt out of ranking entirely into a different league of play so new players can have an opportunity to learn the game before having to deal with people with advanced skills.
See, that is the biggy, I care not about my rank or what people think of me, but I truly think this is a great game that will languish needlessly under poor management and decision making.
Sorrow, if you really want to argue about this kind of stuff, take it to PM like IHATETHISNAME said. This isn't an argue thread.
But anyways here's my own suggestion. People should be able receive PMs when they're offline and see it the next time they get on. I'm fairly sure I'm not the first one to suggest this, but that would be hella useful.
I'm aware you can just simply use the Stickpage Forums here as an alternative, but some SE players don't even know that the forum exists. So if SE were to have this feature, it would be very handy for those without a forum account.
May 14, 2014 12:58 AM #1195073
Quote from sorrowandsadnessI looked at DM toplist today, it if I am correct is 91% premium for the top 30... but of course, that means nothing that only premiums populate the toplist, even though they are probably only 30% of the total game community...
You're right, it means nothing. I'm glad you noticed that. Actually, it's funny that you've accused others of making fallacies when you're making them yourself. For example, you've completely reversed cause and effect here. Players aren't on the toplist because they're premium; they're premium because they're on the toplist! If they're very good at the game, they play it a lot, and if they play it a lot, they naturally want to unlock more features. That doesn't mean they main Chaos or Elementals, nor does it provide any evidence whatsoever that the other empires are OP. Heck, even if they do main one of the other empires, maybe they main one in Classic and Order in DM. Until you provide some hard evidence as to what empires these premiums are maining, I'm not accepting a word of your toplist arguments.
May 14, 2014 1:04 AM #1195076
Quote from sorrowandsadness
make order a viable empire, fix the kiting issue that drives newer player away and the OP issue of the premiums that drive new players and old players away.
Heck, maybe even allow players to opt out of ranking entirely into a different league of play so new players can have an opportunity to learn the game before having to deal with people with advanced skills.
1. order is a viable empire if you know how to use it right and all not just some but all of its ablities. if you need help check out SE WYZDM he has great videos on youtube using order and choas
2. you just messed yourself up. kiting is not an issue it is just decent micro, in fact it make order more powerful when you kite right and yes i know that the other empires can kite to but the deads for chaos are too slow to kite and cost mana, the fire element cost 450 gold and 3 population archers however cost 300 gold and only 2 population.
2. If new players leave because of kiting and not learn how to kite then let them rage quit they couldn't take the heat. I dont think any old player has left plying this game because of kiting. if they do stop playing the game then its for other reasons.
3.players dont have to play a ranked match all the time. thats why we have the three code digit next to our name. you told us your name but not your code. take IHATETHISNAMEs offer so he can teach you how to beat chaos and elements. also we have the custom match so you can play versus a computer in either chaos and order.
That being said.... on the topic regarding the custom match i think we should an elemental option so that other players can actually have practice versus elemental becaue i have noticed that its not an option yet. if it is a work in progress and you know about then i ask to please let me know
May 14, 2014 1:15 AM #1195085
I'm fairly sure it's a work in progress and would take a while because of how you have to combine units to make stronger ones.Quote from stickninja0aThat being said.... on the topic regarding the custom match i think we should an elemental option so that other players can actually have practice versus elemental becaue i have noticed that its not an option yet. if it is a work in progress and you know about then i ask to please let me know
May 14, 2014 1:20 AM #1195088
Quote from SuperterryI'm fairly sure it's a work in progress and would take a while because of how you have to combine units to make stronger ones.
alright thanks Superterry
May 14, 2014 1:27 AM #1195092
replies interspersed below...
Quote from stickninja0a1. order is a viable empire if you know how to use it right and all not just some but all of its ablities. if you need help check out SE WYZDM he has great videos on youtube using order and choas
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Any proof? Because again, you say order is viable. Toplist says you are completely, utterly, totally wrong.
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2. you just messed yourself up. kiting is not an issue it is just decent micro, in fact it make order more powerful when you kite right and yes i know that the other empires can kite to but the deads for chaos are too slow to kite and cost mana, the fire element cost 450 gold and 3 population archers however cost 300 gold and only 2 population.
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Eclipsors can kite, with the magikill nerf, pretty much making in DM an eclipsor mass unbeatable. And early game archer kiting is a real issue for OvO in regular match, basically reducing regular match to little more than kiting in 90% of matches.
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2. If new players leave because of kiting and not learn how to kite then let them rage quit they couldn't take the heat. I dont think any old player has left plying this game because of kiting. if they do stop playing the game then its for other reasons.
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Enjoy having a game with oh... no players then...
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3.players dont have to play a ranked match all the time. thats why we have the three code digit next to our name. you told us your name but not your code. take IHATETHISNAMEs offer so he can teach you how to beat chaos and elements. also we have the custom match so you can play versus a computer in either chaos and order.
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Most new players don't know anyone, and by the time they do, they have quit because of the imbalances... so your idea... don't work.
That being said.... on the topic regarding the custom match i think we should an elemental option so that other players can actually have practice versus elemental becaue i have noticed that its not an option yet. if it is a work in progress and you know about then i ask to please let me know
May 14, 2014 1:45 AM #1195095
dude/dudet (which ever applies) this forum is to post commets or suggestions not to argue i gave my comment/suggestions on what to try to help you but apperently your gonna keep this up so, im gonna PM my response to what you just said
May 16, 2014 3:59 AM #1195708
You guys know how back in SW1 you had direct control over your units using the WASD as well as some hotkeys and the mouse? If there was a separate gamemode dedicated to that in SE, that'd be quite awesome.
Basically it'd be like a team of 4v4, one player controls what the empire makes, and the other three players can play as any order/chaos/elemental unit. Mercenary unit players have 25% stat increase on everything except for running speed. I still have yet to determine how economy or upgrades would even work for merc players.
Well for now it's a very rough idea and I just barely came up with it. ;/
Basically it'd be like a team of 4v4, one player controls what the empire makes, and the other three players can play as any order/chaos/elemental unit. Mercenary unit players have 25% stat increase on everything except for running speed. I still have yet to determine how economy or upgrades would even work for merc players.
Well for now it's a very rough idea and I just barely came up with it. ;/
May 19, 2014 5:44 PM #1197058
Quote from SuperterryYou guys know how back in SW1 you had direct control over your units using the WASD as well as some hotkeys and the mouse? If there was a separate gamemode dedicated to that in SE, that'd be quite awesome.
Basically it'd be like a team of 4v4, one player controls what the empire makes, and the other three players can play as any order/chaos/elemental unit. Mercenary unit players have 25% stat increase on everything except for running speed. I still have yet to determine how economy or upgrades would even work for merc players.
Well for now it's a very rough idea and I just barely came up with it. ;/
Someone would play as an Albowtross and game over to whoever doesn't have one or an archer.
Besides, I think we need to add some actual strategy instead of a preset tactic that one player uses, What strategy is involved when there are preset tactics? The Skill involved is minimal. It quickly becomes rock, paper, scissors except it's Swordwrath, Albowtross, Archer.
We need:
- More resource management*
Okay, Mana and Gold work, but more resource management would allow for different strategies to evolve from this allowing for more dynamic gameplay, DM could be exempt from this though.
- Larger Maps (Only a little bit larger, to make room for flanking maneuvers)*
Okay, there are some tactics that rely on the small size of the map, but there isn't much in the way of dynamic tactics, larger maps would allow for this. DM is exempt from this as well.
- More things to play into the Micro of things
More specific orders work.
- More map features (Choke points, high ground)
More tactics would bloom from this.
Anyone like these?
* = Not in Deathmatch.
May 19, 2014 9:31 PM #1197120
High ground, Larger Maps and choke-points added to the 2D plane of this game would make the entire thing a turtle fest. Not exactly a way to make tactics "blossom."
That's hardly a "Rock Paper Scissors" situation. lol.
Quote from Dark PhoenixIt quickly becomes rock, paper, scissors except it's Swordwrath, Albowtross, Archer.
That's hardly a "Rock Paper Scissors" situation. lol.
May 20, 2014 6:58 PM #1197470
I just noticed there are no elemental ais those might be nice when ever you can get to them^^