I'll try to keep this short. The knockup doesn't push the archers towards you, and besides the useless knockup the damage is pathetic. Tornado is probably useful for stun locking eclipsors, maybe archers. 750 gold 100 mana + 200 gold and 100 mana for tornado upgrade = 950 gold and 200 mana for complete cycloid. Sure the shield is good, but it isn't worth the 750 gold.

I did say run the scorch when tornado is landed. Scorch has great knock back, and can push the archers towards your army. And it isn't worth? For 750, you can protect your inferno/V from an instant death. I think that's great?

Cycloids are good the way they are, they're a support caster (Ai). Nut, they could make the respawn time of the cycloid shorter but not a big difference.

Quote from HashBrownTrials

Cycloids are good the way they are, they're a support caster (Ai). Nut, they could make the respawn time of the cycloid shorter but not a big difference.

Quote from _Ai_

I did say run the scorch when tornado is landed. Scorch has great knock back, and can push the archers towards your army. And it isn't worth? For 750, you can protect your inferno/V from an instant death. I think that's great?

Sorry I didn't read your previous post that carefully. If that's the case, scorch should just insta-kill the archers. However with the tornado they should take some damage first, so it would be a waste to use scorch on them.

I forgot to bring this up in my other post, if you want to kill archers, just get an infernos. It does the job much better, and now that leaves us with the shield. 750 gold and 100 mana for one protect spell isn't that good isn't it? Well I'm going to just conclude and stop here. I'm not trying to say everything I say is correct, I'm just saying I want to stop talking about this now. I am going off topic which is bad.

Hash, I'm sorry I don't know what you mean by respawn time. Of course I don't want a big change, I feel a bit upset since they are nerfing all of ele's anti-air options. I know I'm going overboard with suggesting buffs for elementals so I'll stop.

Since this thread is about suggestions I have another one, maybe they can make it where juggs can charge backwards. Maybe this is too op, just an idea though.

What is op about that? There's not even a real reason for them to be able to charge backwards at all.

escape ranged units?

Fast reactions and even tornado can't 'tag' opposing units to then send less quick AoE's on them, though this play style with Cycloids I quite liked. However, the problem is you need 1 cycloid, the tornado spell, and your other AoE to have any significant impact - by which point you may as well have just brought 2 infernoes and unlocked Meteor shower, or brought 2 cycloids to stun chain wings. It's got really good potential for being a support caster, but mostly it's more rewarding to just spam a single caster.

If cycloids were more orientated around tanking for Airs that were viable in constant fighting and the cycloids then used their spells to support I think they would have better gameplay.

Quote from jerrytt

escape ranged units?

Sounds like a waste of 15 mana to me. Incredibly situational, and you'll generally have more than one so you can freely go back anyway.

Quote from nutsophast

Sorry I didn't read your previous post that carefully. If that's the case, scorch should just insta-kill the archers. However with the tornado they should take some damage first, so it would be a waste to use scorch on them.

I forgot to bring this up in my other post, if you want to kill archers, just get an infernos. It does the job much better, and now that leaves us with the shield. 750 gold and 100 mana for one protect spell isn't that good isn't it? Well I'm going to just conclude and stop here. I'm not trying to say everything I say is correct, I'm just saying I want to stop talking about this now. I am going off topic which is bad.

Hash, I'm sorry I don't know what you mean by respawn time. Of course I don't want a big change, I feel a bit upset since they are nerfing all of ele's anti-air options. I know I'm going overboard with suggesting buffs for elementals so I'll stop.

Since this thread is about suggestions I have another one, maybe they can make it where juggs can charge backwards. Maybe this is too op, just an idea though.

But bringing an inferno makes them vulnerable to units like ninjas. And a 750g 100m shield to protect a (idk the cost) caster that can be more useful the longer the fight drags on is kinda worth it, right? Maybe you don't even scorch; you can just use the inferno to kill the archers. I'm just throwing out suggestions to make scorch more viable lol. And it isn't off-topic. We're discussing a suggestion about cycloids.

And shortening the respawn time means cutting the time for making cycloid aka making air's/other e unit spawn time shorter. I think.

@rain I can see the viability of making the jugger charge backwards. Run a few jugs to the enemy's squishy and charge on them, knocking them forward, towards your army.

Hmm, if it's not off-topic I'll keep talking then. Waters can freeze shadows, I don't think 750 g 100m is worth just a shield, maybe it's just a matter of opinion, but waters are cheaper. Besides, most players, even lots of 2k players, don't get shadows to counter any of my support units. They keep building archers or albows, the only guy with brains that I faced was total300, he turtled with mages and shadows. But setting that aside, in long battles it is also hard to cast protect on a certain unit, I've missed many times and put shield on an earth or something. To pinpoint and target will take a pretty long time, and in battles, every second counts.

For respawn times, I would have to disagree, even though it's a buff, it would unbalance the waters or the airs. Waters would be built too quickly so elementals will have a constant flow of healing and airs would be built too fast, they're both good the way they are. Perhaps buff tornado, probably range or cooldown, damage the least so.

Also since I mentioned waters freezing shadows, I think they should fix the bug (or is it not a bug?) where the shadowrath can shinobi to escape the ice. It's unfair since elementals don't have a wall and the ground spellcasters don't have 4 bars of health like chaos spellcasters.

In my experience, the shadow would shinobi after a range that he can definitely snipe the caster. A good player would not run their ninjas near the caster and shinobi them straight after. So water will have to freeze the ninja a bit far from your army, and be vulnerable to the enemy's army. And even then, the ninja can just shinobi out of his frozen state and still be able to kill the caster. So yeah.

And 2k nowadays don't get shadows to kill casters? w0t.

And that's just technicality. With enough practice you should be able to put a shield on the unit that really needs it (namely v's/infernos).

Well, if they shinobi a good distance away, I don't need to use my water, I can just escape with my inferno since they shinobied (this how you spell it?) early.

About using shinobi out of ice, in my previous post, I'm saying ninjas shouldn't be able to shinobi out of their frozen state, it's stupid. You can read my previous post for my reasons of why shadows shouldn't be able to shinobi out of ice.

I was confused why people didn't use shadows, players 2.1k and above.. Seems like they are so focused on trying to get archers and swords to counter the elems they forget the basics.

No, I'm saying that they will shinobi at a distance that it's confirmed to be able to kill the casters. At least good players will.

And with their one ninja they invalidate your far more expensive caster and your water unit.

Quote from nutsophast

Besides, most players, even lots of 2k players, don't get shadows to counter any of my support units.

If I can ask, what are you rated?

Quote from nutsophast

Seems like they are so focused on trying to get archers and swords to counter the elems they forget the basics.

It's pretty damn hard to instantly techswitch into 450/150 units with 24 second queue. Even besides that you still need to wait about a full minute to queue up shinobi and shinobi II. It's hard to play around ele early on without going into the typical archer/sword ball and it's harder still to make a safe techswitch against them. By the point they can get out meteor infernos the order player may have not had time/money to get out ninjas.