Quote from Skeletonxf

You have not seen infinite charrog jumping

doesn't happen anymore
the burrow takes too long, the charrog gets rekt while it is burrowing

Quote from TheLegendofKaito

doesn't happen anymore
the burrow takes too long, the charrog gets rekt while it is burrowing

I've seen replays yesterday or today of it happening and a single charrog being able to take down 3 miners in less than a second.

Quote from Skeletonxf

I've seen replays yesterday or today of it happening and a single charrog being able to take down 3 miners in less than a second.

;o
You should take them next time then. When I tell my charrogs to jump they only jump twice max.

I've never seen the charrog burrow to be effective vs most things.
Burrow takes. Good 4-5 seconds before its actually unable to be hit. It's damage output is pathetic, it's stun lasts for half a second, it's hit box requires units to be right up on it to do anything.
A slight speed increase when burrowed might make for some interesting plays

Charrogs massing in OvE is actually viable especially if you want to rekt archers.

charrogs get depleted quick tho af
500 | 100
4 Pop
20 Secs
And weak.

I admit charrog mass needs nerf, but first ele range needs huge buff as it sucks right now.

Charrog hp is crazy when massing, but yeah, conventional play with charrogs as tanks doesn't even lend them enough damage output to snipe archers like spears can.

Buff the ele ranged units and neft the tanks and that by itself will open up more micro options for both players, because ranged units need shielding and micro to protect them.

I'm not sure...Ele won't have anything to tech up to then.

Quote from TheLegendofKaito

I'm not sure...Ele won't have anything to tech up to then.

Yes it would, tanks for it's airs and tanks for it's fires.

Quote from Skeletonxf

Yes it would, tanks for it's airs and tanks for it's fires.

would still suck against giants

Quote from Skeletonxf

Charrog hp is crazy when massing, but yeah, conventional play with charrogs as tanks doesn't even lend them enough damage output to snipe archers like spears can.

Buff the ele ranged units and neft the tanks and that by itself will open up more micro options for both players, because ranged units need shielding and micro to protect them.

But I rarely see any player who can mass charrog successfully, let alone to mention to win with charrog mass
Of course I refer to classic
Charrog in classic is quite fine, even in dm, they are still pretty fine in my mind .
Additional 50 gold and 50 mana for a slightly more tanky unit than spear/jugger, while a lower attack power.

But trees are still very terrible , especially trees are the only option to play ele in both dm and classic. And in short map dm, tree mass is still stupid and 100% win against chaos.

My concern is just nerfing trees will leave ele way too weak. Charrogs as they are now functioning as the main tank for a better set of ranged units might work decently mid game, though I think it will still power spike too hard early, but late game ele's going to need stronger tanking power when it starts to face giants.

Trees are easy enough to deal with if they are alone. Even with charrogs, the dps just isn't enough to break an Order turtle. Orders only real problem is V's and Infernos, (Cycloids aren't that useful to breaking turtles). Since an Inferno can be made way earlier and faster than a ninja with shinobi II, Order have trouble dealing with it, and the scorpions can finish it off.

It always seems to boil down to reducing shinobi times.

And yeah, ele needs better ranged. Fires can do just fine since they have speed, armour penetration, burn and can kite, but airs only have armour penetration. Imo, airs just need a total redesign, the only useful thing they can do is make infernos. (And blind gate obviously).

Why not? Order is good at turtling, its playing to their strengths. Either way, if you aren't forced into a turtle by an elementals player, then its because he sucks.