My thoughts would be that the Bible implies that there was never a period of time where nothing existed, and that God was there before nothing had a chance to exist.

then prove it
the difference between christian and astronomy is that in astronomy you can actually look up in space and see a process's going on(examples, stars being born, supernovas, black holes, nebula's etc.), if the sky is clear enough and if you have a good telescope(if you know where/when to look), but you can't look at space and say*there is god, or god made that etc.*
if you don't trust me you can even get a telescope your self and look at space

Hey Focus. The Bible says in John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." It would be impossible for any christian to prove God without using the word of God (Bible), because it says that the word of God is God. Also, it says that God was here from the beginning.

at the beginning of the world(around 4.55 billion years ago) there was no life, no air, no water, no moon, but a rocky planet with an endless ocean with lava, it was first when a planet that hit the earth called thea(or some like that) the moon would be born. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQm6N60bneo
this video shows a good example of our planet's history and what i was talking about, and at the same time proves that there was no god that created earth and that he wasn't there at the beginning (which also mean that there doesn't exist any god)

also, on an other topic(kinda), why would a god create 12-14 humans species and then wipe 13 of them completely out?
if a god actually exist and did that, then he is quite evil and selfish if you ask me

also, this isn't personal in any way

Quote from Gnyse

I'm gonna use the Bible for this because I alone make mistakes and I do ask questions like this too. 1 John 4:8 "Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love." This is why I believe that God isn't evil.

Also, according to the bible, the basis for life is described in Genesis 1:28 "God blessed them and said to them, 'Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground.'"

So yeah, human suffering didn't initially exist. When God created Adam and Eve, he gave them free will but only one rule, which was not to eat from a certain tree. They did, however, so their disobedience brought sin (separation from God) into the world. In Genesis 3:15-17 God punishes them for their actions. He does this like a parent would to his child. Through Adam and Eve's actions, suffering is brought into the world.

I personally don't know what I'd do if I was 100% happy and satisfied with everything. Even in the basis for life above, we still had a target to reach, which was to rule and increase.

I hope we could expand on this topic :]

because god created the curiosity for them, he want them to do that, to eat it, why he plant the tree there, also the dinosour, he creat them and wipe them, what he problem, maybe he bored, who know, when you are a dude in a sky nothing to do and then, created some thing and make them suffer that for fun, sure i see god is a very good dude

Quote from Gnyse

Through Adam and Eve's actions, suffering is brought into the world.

I don't think an argument based on a literal interpretation of Genesis is valid unless you explain how it fits with the fossil record. It's an established fact that we evolved from ancestral species and that life existed on earth long before humans did.

Considering that, how do you believe in the story of Adam and Eve when nothing in nature or reality supports creationism?

Quote from Gnyse

I'm gonna use the Bible for this because I alone make mistakes and I do ask questions like this too. 1 John 4:8 "Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love." This is why I believe that God isn't evil.

If you believe that God = Love then you are committed to the view that love created the universe, but love cannot exist without anything to love so God couldn't have existed before the universe and therefore couldn't create it. Your position is inconsistent.

He created the universe before he existed to fulfill a time loop.

bible.cc is cool
http://bible.cc/psalms/137-9.htm
http://bible.cc/jeremiah/19-9.htm

Quote from FocusFa

then prove it

John 1:1. I'm just using what the Bible says, and then again I can't prove anything about God without using the word of God. Can we prove that at some point nothing existed? At t=0 are they saying that something was there initially? <- (Thats what I didn't understand about the video)


Around 00:17:00-00:18:40 in the movie, I began to see why scientists believe that the earth is 4.55 billion years old. The process of oxygen filling the entire atmosphere through photosynthesis would appear take longer than the 6 days that the Bible says God took. but then again, the Bible says in 2 Peter 3:8 "But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day." "Like" a thousand years isn't definite, but neither was the length of one day during the formation of Earth.

Quote from neckromorph

because god created the curiosity for them, he want them to do that, to eat it, why he plant the tree there, also the dinosour, he creat them and wipe them, what he problem, maybe he bored, who know, when you are a dude in a sky nothing to do and then, created some thing and make them suffer that for fun, sure i see god is a very good dude

Do you believe that the Bible is true?

Quote from Exilement

I don't think an argument based on a literal interpretation of Genesis is valid unless you explain how it fits with the fossil record. It's an established fact that we evolved from ancestral species and that life existed on earth long before humans did.

Considering that, how do you believe in the story of Adam and Eve when nothing in nature or reality supports creationism?

Gen 1:21 God created creatures (4th day) Gen 1:26 God created creatures (5th day). Still using 2 Peter 3:8 its possible to believe that God created humans through evolution, or we could at least begin on a journey to reach a consensus about other species/fossils/etc. Although, things that specific about the animals aren't biblically mentioned.

Quote from Zed

If you believe that God = Love then you are committed to the view that love created the universe, but love cannot exist without anything to love so God couldn't have existed before the universe and therefore couldn't create it. Your position is inconsistent.

Quote from Gnyse

John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Verse 2: "He was with God in the beginning." God = Love ; and the Word was with God. Implying God loves his word.

Quote from 2-D

bible.cc is cool
http://bible.cc/psalms/137-9.htm
http://bible.cc/jeremiah/19-9.htm

Lolz. U B 2 funneh ;D

John 1:1. I'm just using what the Bible says, and then again I can't prove anything about God without using the word of God. Can we prove that at some point nothing existed? At t=0 are they saying that something was there initially? <- (Thats what I didn't understand about the video)

actually yes, at some point it can be proved that there was a time when there was nothing/no time)
it pretty simple really, i'll use the same example as i did once before.
if you look at the universe as an video, on the video there is a start and an end(obvious), and if you start at some point on the video and try to rewind in as much as possible you'll get to a point where you no longer can rewind, that is simply because there was no time, there was nothing at all before the video/big bang started.
pretty simple if you ask me

Quote from FocusFa

actually yes, at some point it can be proved that there was a time when there was nothing/no time)
it pretty simple really, i'll use the same example as i did once before.
if you look at the universe as an video, on the video there is a start and an end(obvious), and if you start at some point on the video and try to rewind in as much as possible you'll get to a point where you no longer can rewind, that is simply because there was no time, there was nothing at all before the video/big bang started.
pretty simple if you ask me

uhh, yeah, a little too fucking simple there, bub.

you want a more advanced explanation?
lol

more advanced than your amazing tape analogy? please

Quote from FocusFa

actually yes, at some point it can be proved that there was a time when there was nothing/no time)
it pretty simple really, i'll use the same example as i did once before.
if you look at the universe as an video, on the video there is a start and an end(obvious), and if you start at some point on the video and try to rewind in as much as possible you'll get to a point where you no longer can rewind, that is simply because there was no time, there was nothing at all before the video/big bang started.
pretty simple if you ask me

I tried this with a video on youtube and even at 00:00, the point where I couldn't rewind anymore, the video still 'existed' or had a picture there. What I mean by that is that at t=0, matter could still exist. Just like in the graph

x representing time and y representing amount of matter. Y could be 0 at that point but it also could be greater than 0. What about negative matter. Sorry I'm going really off topic here >.<



If we go before the 'video' how would we deal with negative time D:

Quote from FocusFa

you want a more advanced explanation?
lol

uh, yeah that'd be cool, since you seem to be talking out of your ass

"at some point it can be proved that there was a time when there was nothing/no time". So you think there's a specific point in time where time didn't exist?

Quote from Gnyse

x representing time and y representing amount of matter.

The amount of matter in the universe isn't linearly increasing with time.

Quote from Gnyse

Do you believe that the Bible is true?

why do i need to believe the bible

Exilement/Gnyse/2-D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L7VTdzuY7Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs-yWMuBNr4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uabNtlLfYyU
there you go

Gnyse, i think you misunderstood my comment or either i didn't make my self clear enough, because you can't rewind at 0:00 is simply because there is no *before* which also means that negative time would be impossible