Before people suicide, they delude themselves to think that its better that they're gone, cause everyone else would be better off without them. Suicide isn't exactly selfish as much as it is stupid.

Suicider's thoughts:
1)My parents will have more money without me. They'll be happier not having to carry my weight around.
2)My friends would be better off with me gone. Im no fun and they don't notice me much anyways.
3)Even if it hurts my family, they'll get over it eventually and be happier in the end.

Results:
1)Parents don't spend a single day day, for the rest of their lives, beating themselves, wondering what kind of horrible parents they are for making their child kill themself.
2)Friends are horrified for years, telling themselves that they should have known their friend was depressed, and that they should have stopped him. They never forgive themselves.
3) Lots of people never get over it.

Or you know, they don't think that, because thats bullshit. People rarely kill themselves because they think they are hurting others, they kill themselves because they don't like how the world treats them, or how the world is in general.

Quote from Jeremy

Or you know, they don't think that, because thats bullshit. People rarely kill themselves because they think they are hurting others, they kill themselves because they don't like how the world treats them, or how the world is in general.

i agree. in the news, 2 young boys hung themselves because they were repeatedly made fun of at school. and i mean A LOT. a girl shot herself with a rifle for the same reason

Suicide is an immature thing to do. It's the same as a child stealing from, and punching another child because he didn't get the crayon he wanted at the moment he demanded it. As a consequence he will be sent to the corner. Essentially, he harmed himself, and others, for a moment of satisfaction. The problem is temporary, the actions you take afterwards are permanent. Of course, my child situation is a lot less severe than matters of life and death, but the principle is the same. Killing yourself to fix problems, is the child, the cowards, and the greedy person's way out.

The mature thing to do in such a situation, is to think clearly about the pros and cons of options. Death: Pro- No more of this (temporary) pain. Con- People will suffer, I will be dead, People will think poorly of me, My family will be tormented daily by the thoughts of my death, I could just take another action and be fine. Life: Pros- I'm not finished living my life yet. People won't suffer. I could always ask to be transferred to another school where I don't get picked on, or get home schooled. I could leave the job that wears me down every day for minimum wage. I could...etc.

Immature way out = Suicide.
Mature way out = FIX YOUR GOD DAMN PROBLEMS, BECAUSE DEATH IS NOT WORTH THE MOMENTARY SATISFACTION. Oh yeah. AND DEATH PROBABLY HURTS LIKE A BITCH. lulz.

and just to dissuade anyone who says "elohel, dude, you don;t know anything cuz you;ve nevur be3n suicidle!!1!" I'll have you know, I'm manic depressive and schizophrenic. I deal with suicidal tendencies DAILY(when I don't take my medicine). But all I have to do to get rid of depressing or suicidal thoughts, is think "hey, life's not that bad. Even if I get picked on today, even if someone beats me up, EVEN if my whole family dies in a terrible car accident. Life will go on. The universe will survive, and by staying alive, I can honor the very fabric of life that my family, and the human race, is proud to hold." /bow

So someone with severe down syndrome, who will never marry or date because of their looks, be constantly made fun of and treated strangely, be looked at by their parents as a terrible mistake, shouldn't commit suicide because its immature?

If you keep living in sadness and depression, basically suffering for the whole time you're alive. How selfish is it of other people to make you go on that way? Some people who commit suicide are idiots and they do it unnecessarily. But for some I feel it really is justified. One more life is not exactly important anyway.

By the way, Jeremy. A person with "severe" down syndrome probably wouldn't be able to comprehend suicide. And they're not necessarily "suffering" because they're not entirely aware. But I get your point, downs was just a bad example.

I wast just demonstrating the worst possible situation to be in ever, that sure comes close. Lol.

No offense to retards.

Lol, I don't see how this really applies to people who are born mentally handicapped. I more so argue that NON-handicapped people would be immature to suicide. I don't know what to think about a handicapped person suiciding >_> I don't even know what to say about that. That's terrible.

So is regular life, tons of people live worse lives than you do, mister, its not immature to try and get out.

Suicide is definitely an act of selfishness. Regardless of the motives, how many people out there would have given anything for life; the thing that some would carelessly throw away..?

(Dont know whether or not this point has yet been made, didnt read through all 12 pages)

Quote from N30N

Suicide is definitely an act of selfishness. Regardless of the motives, how many people out there would have given anything for life; the thing that some would carelessly throw away..?

(Dont know whether or not this point has yet been made, didnt read through all 12 pages)

I don't think any "people out there" would give anything for a life. How does that even make sense? In order to be able to give something, you pretty much already has to be alive, which makes your whole rhetorical question meaningless. If your point is that many people out there would give anything to live the life of our hypothetical, that too is meaningless, simply because we don't know the details of those two lives.
In my opinion, you can't deal with absolutes when it comes to suicides, if ever. Yes, suicide can be selfish. But it doesn't have to be. It isn't always, take self sacrifice, for example.

Quote from alive

I don't think any "people out there" would give anything for a life. How does that even make sense? In order to be able to give something, you pretty much already has to be alive, which makes your whole rhetorical question meaningless. If your point is that many people out there would give anything to live the life of our hypothetical, that too is meaningless, simply because we don't know the details of those two lives.
In my opinion, you can't deal with absolutes when it comes to suicides, if ever. Yes, suicide can be selfish. But it doesn't have to be. It isn't always, take self sacrifice, for example.

I never considered self-sacrifice a form of suicide. Though they both fall under "suicide" by definition, they're almost totally unrelated acts.

Suicide as I define it personally is a selfish act of an individual unwilling to believe they are able to go on in life, and therefore deem it necessary to die, almost always for everyone else's "benefit", without once considering the grief and sadness they would put those same people they're trying to spare through.

Self-sacrifice is a willful act to preserve another's life or well being through an act of willfully placing oneself in harm's way, such as pushing one person out of the way of an oncoming vehicle only to be hit yourself. Though the same ramifications of causing a great deal of pain to the one you were trying to protect exists, the reason for the act is far more valid.

In short, under a blanket definition, yes, suicide can be both selfish and selfless, but it depends entirely upon the reason(s) for the act.

Quote from Jexsam

Suicide as I define it personally is a selfish act of an individual unwilling to believe they are able to go on in life, and therefore deem it necessary to die, almost always for everyone else's "benefit", without once considering the grief and sadness they would put those same people they're trying to spare through.

If they think they're doing it for everyone else's benefit then it's not selfish, just stupid. Ignorance is not a sin in itself.

Quote from Zed

If they think they're doing it for everyone else's benefit then it's not selfish, just stupid. Ignorance is not a sin in itself.

How does one's life ending, benefit others? btw isn't it one's choice to do w.e he wishes to him/her self?