Now the ultimate question of how the universe came to be, if it did at all, is quite often asked indeed. However, I haven't seen any threads in the debate section specifically dealing with this subject matter. Lately as I have been reading about philosophy and physics and watching several debates, I have come across a variety of interesting arguments and theories for the beginning of the universe. The main problem with the universe coming in to existence on it's own, is that because of what normally goes on in our day to day lives, we assume that something can not come out of nothing, and that an effect always has to have a cause.

Arguments from all camps are encouraged. Deist, theist, atheist, pantheist, whatever. It's all good as long as you remember to back up your claim with facts, or at least solid, logical chain of reasoning as to why you have come to your conclusion.

Now I'll lay out a couple of theories so we can get this debate started.

1. The multiverse theory. The multiverse theory is a hypothetical set of there being multiple universes. A seemingly infinite amount of universes, all different from each other. Together, they would comprise everything that exists or can exist. This would make the existence of our universe an inevitability, because every other possible version of a universe already exists. Of course this is, for the most part based on assumptions and pure speculation. I still find it to be an interesting possibility.

2. A theistic/deistic creator god created the universe. The cosmological argument is a quite popular argument that claims that everything that exists has to have a cause for their existance. For the universe to exist, it must also have a cause, and this cause must be god. I have two problems with this argument. The first one, is that it assumes that everything that exists has to have a cause, yet that's not necessarily true at all. If there's no time for a cause to exist in (like inside black holes, where time is static) then a cause isn't required for things to exist. My second problem is the jump that is made, from a cause, to an intelligent, omnipotent and omniscient being.

3. EDIT: Found it. A long-proposed thought experiment, put forward by both philosophers and popular culture, points out that any civilisation of sufficient size and intelligence would eventually create a simulation universe if such a thing were possible.
And since there would therefore be many more simulations (within simulations, within simulations) than real universes, it is therefore more likely than not that our world is artificial.

Please do correct me if I misrepresented any of these.

Quote from Leokill

The big bang theory says that the universe was once an extremely dense and hot black hole, that expanded rapidly.

It was a singularity, not a black hole. Black holes are gravitational singularities but they're very different from the original state of the universe described in the big bang theory.

Also the big bang theory has nothing to do with where the universe came from, it just describes the earliest moments in our universe's history. What you're talking about is cosmogeny which is nothing but pure speculation at this point. The simple answer is "we don't know", and that's really the only stance I can take on the topic.

Quote from Exilement

It was a singularity, not a black hole. Black holes are gravitational singularities but they're very different from the original state of the universe described in the big bang theory.

Also the big bang theory has nothing to do with where the universe came from, it just describes the earliest moments in our universe's history. What you're talking about is cosmogeny which is nothing but pure speculation at this point. The simple answer is "we don't know", and that's really the only stance I can take on the topic.

Right, removed the big bang theory from there. Though, a discussion of what caused the big bang, or did it have a cause at all can be made imo. I think Stephen Hawking, for example, has an interesting theory on how the universe created itself through quantum mechanics.

"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing,"
"Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist."

my answer is a mix between the first and the second option :
god created multiple universes...each univers have its habitants...its rules...and they all started with a big bang...you also cant just remove that option...because scientists have recently proved that stars are getting away from each other since they were created...and they proved that its light still can be seen by special ways that i dont understand...

i actually had a feeling one day that we are inside a matrix...but perhaps thats because i loved that movie ALOT !

THE riser, it is impossible for a god to exist because of various reasons
1, there is no outside of our universe, it is possible there there is other universe's but there is no *outside*, so that means it is impossible for a god to live outside our universe
2, there was no before the big bang which also mean there was a time when there was no time at all, and that means that it is impossible for a god to exist simple because there was no time for a god to be.

also when you think about it the matrix theory doesn't really seems realistic, it just an other version of a godish existing :l

Quote from FocusFa

THE riser, it is impossible for a god to exist because of various reasons
1, there is no outside of our universe, it is possible there there is other universe's but there is no *outside*, so that means it is impossible for a god to live outside our universe
2, there was no before the big bang which also mean there was a time when there was no time at all, and that means that it is impossible for a god to exist simple because there was no time for a god to be.

also when you think about it the matrix theory doesn't really seems realistic, it just an other version of a godish existing :l

be open minded...god created the universe...created time...created space...he is not supposed to be chained with the rules he created by his own hands...start thinking out of the box!

Quote from THE RISER

be open minded...god created the universe...created time...created space...he is not supposed to be chained with the rules he created by his own hands...start thinking out of the box!

this doesn't prove anything of a god existing, it is simple, nonsense, if you want people to believe in what you do, you have to come up with actual prof of it existing, i can easily come up with *profs* of that the universe doesn't need a god to be created
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQhd05ZVYWg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pENq1ml2haA
these videos shows and explain the begin of our solar system, the REAL begin , and also explains how people figured out the big bang, and why it is impossible for a god to exist, i recommend you to watch those videos before saying anything against it

Quote from FocusFa

this doesn't prove anything of a god existing, it is simple, nonsense, if you want people to believe in what you do, you have to come up with actual prof of it existing, i can easily come up with *profs* of that the universe doesn't need a god to be created
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQhd05ZVYWg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pENq1ml2haA
these videos shows and explain the begin of our solar system, the REAL begin , and also explains how people figured out the big bang, and why it is impossible for a god to exist, i recommend you to watch those videos before saying anything against it

i afraid im not going to be anle to watch those videos because my comp is lagging...and i cant give you scientifical proofs about god because simply "you cant chain him with scientifique rules that he created"...but i dont think you will convice you...but you said yourself that there was nothing before the creation of the universe...not even time...so the universe just decide ""oneday"" to exist ! THAT is something that doesnt make any sense !

EDIT:i have to go...we will finish this oneday...i hope...bye !

it doesn't make any sense either that a god should came from no where and randomly create the universe, why would he even make the universe? what's the point? why would you believe in something you can't even prove, nor you can't see him, and you can't *touch him* i did believe in god one time, but nothing really happen
the difference between the bible and science is that, science actually can prove things, you can even look up in space and see, things like other stars, galaxy's, the other planets in our solar system, you can even see the process of other solar systems being created the same way as ours was if you have a good enough telescope, but you can't look at space and see any prove of that a *god* existing.

Quote from FocusFa

1, there is no outside of our universe, it is possible there there is other universe's but there is no *outside*, so that means it is impossible for a god to live outside our universe
2, there was no before the big bang which also mean there was a time when there was no time at all, and that means that it is impossible for a god to exist simple because there was no time for a god to be.

Look dude, I'm an atheist too, but there is no possible way for any of us to know #1 for sure. And second, there was a "before the big bang". Everything can't just spontaneously come from nothing, there had to be something there beforehand such as a singularity like Exilement said. Now I don't know much of the details about the Big Bang theory, so I won't spring into some half-baked lecture, but you should at least know what you're talking about before you try to disprove multiple religions.

Quote from Scooty

Look dude, I'm an atheist too, but there is no possible way for any of us to know #1 for sure. And second, there was a "before the big bang". Everything can't just spontaneously come from nothing, there had to be something there beforehand such as a singularity like Exilement said. Now I don't know much of the details about the Big Bang theory, so I won't spring into some half-baked lecture, but you should at least know what you're talking about before you try to disprove multiple religions.

You have to consider this: Cause is something that happened before an effect. A cause cannot exist, if there is no time for a cause to exist in.

And as for not knowing for 100% certainty whether or not god exists, I agree on that. FocusFa, a god is such a loosely defined concept, that it's basically unfalsifiable. You can prove that you DON'T need a god to explain how the universe begun, as Stephen Hawking is doing, but that's not absolute evidence that disproves god's existence. Using terms like definitely or impossible is inaccurate, unscientific and reckless, when you're dealing with something so loosely defined as god. You can be 99.99% sure about these things. Never a full 100%

The beauty of science, is that it's adaptable and open to development and new ideas. (Unlike religious dogma.) Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Disproving something, which is very much designed as a concept to be unfalsifiable, is as extraordinary of a claim, as it is to say that a god definitely exists.

Quote from FocusFa

i can easily come up with *profs* of that the universe doesn't need a god to be created

No you can't and you need to stop being so fucking certain of yourself. Nothing in science disproves the concept of a god.

A youtube video isn't an argument. Stop posting them and stop attacking anyone who believes in god.

Quote from Scooty

Look dude, I'm an atheist too, but there is no possible way for any of us to know #1 for sure. And second, there was a "before the big bang". Everything can't just spontaneously come from nothing, there had to be something there beforehand such as a singularity like Exilement said. Now I don't know much of the details about the Big Bang theory, so I won't spring into some half-baked lecture, but you should at least know what you're talking about before you try to disprove multiple religions.

we do know for sure that there was no *before* the big bang, we have finaly found something that doesn't need a cause, i think you are the one here that should know a bit more about the big bang here

Quote from FocusFa

we do know for sure that there was no *before* the big bang, we have finaly found something that doesn't need a cause, i think you are the one here that should know a bit more about the big bang here

Just gonna completely disregard everyone elses statements then, huh?

Quote from FocusFa

we do know for sure

We're discussing theoretical physics here. You do not get to make definite claims, that are based on theory alone.