Tech, you can make order to stop mining for long long time using crawlers hit and run. If you were good at control, all decent order player will be pissed off even if the rage-upgrade is 50/50 because upgrading time is more enough to get 450 gold with 3 miners. And during that time you can make order miners stop mining.

CC took words out of my mouth.

Tecness, is it possible for you to post without being patronising?

And good point Kilean. I think we've only touched the tip of the iceberg with crawlers. Swordsrath are just useless against them. Crawlers have no need to engage swordwraths

Yes, it is possible, but until you learn how to use the edit button, I will continue to post like this.
Also, here's a little hint, it's at the bottom right of your post. It's got a little pencil-looking-thing beside it.

Quote from DA RULES

Secondly, double posting and spam are things people definitely don't want to see in the forums and I don't either. You will be warned upon first offenses, but if it's frequent, a ban may be issued, if only temporary. Double posting is where you post one (or more) times after you've just posted. Unless you have a good reason to do so, avoid this habit.

So, Crawlers have no reason to attack swordwrath normally, but they have a very good reason(I'm assuming) to attack swordwrath when they use rage.

Get over yourself, you will continue to post like that anyway. You are on a massive power trip and everyone knows it. Being a mod should come with the responsibility of not being an ass.

Quote from Tecness2

Yes, it is possible, but until you learn how to use the edit button, I will continue to post like this.
Also, here's a little hint, it's at the bottom right of your post. It's got a little pencil-looking-thing beside it.
[/COLOR]
So, Crawlers have no reason to attack swordwrath normally, but they have a very good reason(I'm assuming) to attack swordwrath when they use rage.

well post-rage nerf you get one less swordwrath or miner which is a big deal considering rage is only useful for early game chaos vs order because of bombers.

chaos can't get bombers early cuz they need crawlers to finish off the sword but mid game they have enaugh crawlers to finish the swords so they can afford to produce bombers

Quote from RUMMAKER

well post-rage nerf you get one less swordwrath or miner which is a big deal considering rage is only useful for early game chaos vs order because of bombers.

chaos can't get bombers early cuz they need crawlers to finish off the sword but mid game they have enaugh crawlers to finish the swords so they can afford to produce bombers

exactly. The extra 50 might as well be an extra 150-it does the same damage to your economy early game unless you're going for archers, which you can't really on against chaos anyway.

Once you add bombers into the mix, the advantage is shifted massively in chaos' favour as Order does not have an Area of effect weapon.

Quote from MiamiBigAL

exactly. The extra 50 might as well be an extra 150-it does the same damage to your economy early game unless you're going for archers, which you can't really on against chaos anyway.

Once you add bombers into the mix, the advantage is shifted massively in chaos' favour as Order does not have an Area of effect weapon.

except for magikill ... which is hard hard countered by medusa which cost the same but can kill magikill before they even get in range to cast their spells. not to mention the cast time compared to bombers.

Also, i think the chaos imbalance goes further then early game crawlers. Lets say order somehow survives chaos early game. what can they build?

we can't build
-giants (reapers Medusa chaos giants all counter order giants) (in order vs order the counter to giants is melee units & poison but chaos giants completely wipes the floor with anything that attacks at close range+the only counter to chaos giants that's not melee gets HARD countered by Medusa,skull mage, flyers etc)

-ninjas (it takes 2 fully upgraded ninjas to one shot Medusa), in order vs order one ninja one shots magikill but why is it that it takes 2 ninjas to kill a unit that costs the same as a magikill? not to mention vs chaos u can't afford to tech early cuz CRAWLERS so by the time ninjas come out ur 2 ninjas thats suppose to "assassinate" their Medusa or skull mage will end up dieing 100% of the time so ur trading 900gold 300 mana for 500 gold 500mana.

-albowtross. they buffed tross so they come out earlier but as always i would LOVE IT if they change tross back to the way they are but nerf chaos flyers. Simply because no matter how much "better(its not even that much better)" tross is by the time u get a tross out chaos will have 2 flyers out and 2 flyers > one tross. Its like giants, it doesn't matter if its good if u can't get it out it might as well not be in the game.

-magikill. one medusa and bam u instantly lose ur magikill and u can't attack into their army either because most of the time its bigger or the same as urs due to chaos early game advantage.

so what can we build
-merics we don't really have a choice here(should be self explanitory). now someone made a thread saying chaos regen is not a big deal xD well it is a huge deal. it means chaos can have their units stay on the field while order has to garrison to regen. it makes a SMALL diffrence when both sides are fighting but it makes a HUGE deal if order is losing the fight because it stretches the advantage due to the fact chaos can just hold on the the ground they gained because they don't have to garrison.

-swords. Considering high teir units get ROFLSTOMPED by medusa and skullmage and everyother OP BS chaos has it is the only viable thing we got. but guess what? bombers. unlike order aoe, bombers can't be "sniped" or "assassinated". spread out ur army? ok lol it reduces ur firepower by so much its not even funny.

-archers. might be viable if lag dident render micro impossible.

-so basically we have to build low teir units to counter chaos. but chaos low teir units have an advantage over order low teir...so how are we suppose to win again?

and finally consider the 2 sword killing miners vs the 2 crawlers killing miner scenario.

order- 3 miners. chaos- 4 miners
order builds castle archer...crawlers retreat and stay alive
chaos builds castle archer...swords die cuz poison...(unless its small map)
so chaos has center+an extra miner and possibly kills 2 swordwraths (maps bigger then/equal to mountains = swords die before getting to garrison)

Quote from RUMMAKER

except for magikill ... which is hard hard countered by medusa which cost the same but can kill magikill before they even get in range to cast their spells. not to mention the cast time compared to bombers.

Also, i think the chaos imbalance goes further then early game crawlers. Lets say order somehow survives chaos early game. what can they build?

we can't build
-giants (reapers Medusa chaos giants all counter order giants) (in order vs order the counter to giants is melee units & poison but chaos giants completely wipes the floor with anything that attacks at close range+the only counter to chaos giants that's not melee gets HARD countered by Medusa,skull mage, flyers etc)

-ninjas (it takes 2 fully upgraded ninjas to one shot Medusa), in order vs order one ninja one shots magikill but why is it that it takes 2 ninjas to kill a unit that costs the same as a magikill? not to mention vs chaos u can't afford to tech early cuz CRAWLERS so by the time ninjas come out ur 2 ninjas thats suppose to "assassinate" their Medusa or skull mage will end up dieing 100% of the time so ur trading 900gold 300 mana for 500 gold 500mana.

-albowtross. they buffed tross so they come out earlier but as always i would LOVE IT if they change tross back to the way they are but nerf chaos flyers. Simply because no matter how much "better(its not even that much better)" tross is by the time u get a tross out chaos will have 2 flyers out and 2 flyers > one tross. Its like giants, it doesn't matter if its good if u can't get it out it might as well not be in the game.

-magikill. one medusa and bam u instantly lose ur magikill and u can't attack into their army either because most of the time its bigger or the same as urs due to chaos early game advantage.

so what can we build
-merics we don't really have a choice here(should be self explanitory). now someone made a thread saying chaos regen is not a big deal xD well it is a huge deal. it means chaos can have their units stay on the field while order has to garrison to regen. it makes a SMALL diffrence when both sides are fighting but it makes a HUGE deal if order is losing the fight because it stretches the advantage due to the fact chaos can just hold on the the ground they gained because they don't have to garrison.

-swords. Considering high teir units get ROFLSTOMPED by medusa and skullmage and everyother OP BS chaos has it is the only viable thing we got. but guess what? bombers. unlike order aoe, bombers can't be "sniped" or "assassinated". spread out ur army? ok lol it reduces ur firepower by so much its not even funny.

-archers. might be viable if lag dident render micro impossible.

-so basically we have to build low teir units to counter chaos. but chaos low teir units have an advantage over order low teir...so how are we suppose to win again?

and finally consider the 2 sword killing miners vs the 2 crawlers killing miner scenario.

order- 3 miners. chaos- 4 miners
order builds castle archer...crawlers retreat and stay alive
chaos builds castle archer...swords die cuz poison...(unless its small map)
so chaos has center+an extra miner and possibly kills 2 swordwraths (maps bigger then/equal to mountains = swords die before getting to garrison)

RUMMAKER just put in words my inner rant. I only wanted to highlight the crawler problem because it is the first step of the imbalance. It alone causes such an economic disparity that it's the first thing I think should be addressed.

Chaos seems to have many advantages but....
you can beat their with 3-4 ninjas with shinobi 2
they cannot build walls to protect their mages

Medic.... I think medic is better than regen because he can heal a upgraded giant fully after some time but Chaos has to wait for long
they heal lots of hit point

and finally consider the 2 sword killing miners vs the 2 crawlers killing miner scenario.

order- 3 miners. chaos- 4 miners
order builds castle archer...crawlers retreat and stay alive
chaos builds castle archer...swords die cuz poison...(unless its small map)
so chaos has center+an extra miner and possibly kills 2 swordwraths (maps bigger then/equal to mountains = swords die before getting to garrison)

2 crawlers vs 2 swordwrath, swordwraths win..... For this case, defend the castle but not rushing to the chaos castle
miners can ignore those crawlers as they cannnot die with 2 swordwraths guarding, after 2 crawlers die, or run
capture the middle

Quote from Azxc

2 crawlers vs 2 swordwrath, swordwraths win..... For this case, defend the castle but not rushing to the chaos castle
miners can ignore those crawlers as they cannnot die with 2 swordwraths guarding, after 2 crawlers die, or run
capture the middle

You honestly think 2 swordswrath can beat 2 crawlers?
Unless you had castle archer, then its impossible for 2 swords to beat 2 crawlers.
reason #1: They regen pretty fast (you might say, chaos regen SUCKS, but for crawlers, they get full hp quickly)
#2: they are faster

Which creates the possibility of: attacking, retreat, heal, attack, retreat, etc. and you cant even garrison your swords because then they will attack your miners.

Quote from DragonFrost

You honestly think 2 swordswrath can beat 2 crawlers?
Unless you had castle archer, then its impossible for 2 swords to beat 2 crawlers.
reason #1: They regen pretty fast (you might say, chaos regen SUCKS, but for crawlers, they get full hp quickly)
#2: they are faster

Which creates the possibility of: attacking, retreat, heal, attack, retreat, etc. and you cant even garrison your swords because then they will attack your miners.

true that,
and medusa and marowkai should get a nerf in health, they have much more health compare to a mage...petrify should not work against mage, just make them lose 1/3 of health...same for meric (maybe).....because the last few battle with chaos, i got stoned to dead by a line of medusas and line of marowkais and like 2-3 giants. every single not giant unit got stoned with a small amount of time..and my giant got draged and eventuraly finished off by Chaos giants...really anoying...and the dead....heck, they can kill archer or swordwrath without poison. crawler, they don't need to garrison and can throw all your miners to trash can.
i can beat some chaos players but simply because the lack of experiences....once they became good, unbeatable except another chaos...

1 Swordwrath can ALMOST beat 2 Crawlers without control.
While crawlers are faster, swordwrath can still attack while they are running and also do the cancel animation trick.
Also Rummaker, a bit of what you said was wrong, but I won't get into it.

IF rage was changed from 100 gold - 50 mana TO 50 gold & 100 mana, would you all stop complaining?
No guarantee's about that.

Quote from Tecness2

1 Swordwrath can ALMOST beat 2 Crawlers without control.
While crawlers are faster, swordwrath can still attack while they are running and also do the cancel animation trick.
Also Rummaker, a bit of what you said was wrong, but I won't get into it.

IF rage was changed from 100 gold - 50 mana TO 50 gold & 100 mana, would you all stop complaining?
No guarantee's about that.

1.animation cancel affected all units, swordwraths included.

2.i will stop complaining about rage but i will still be complaining about chaos :p.

Quote from DragonFrost

You honestly think 2 swordswrath can beat 2 crawlers?
Unless you had castle archer, then its impossible for 2 swords to beat 2 crawlers.
reason #1: They regen pretty fast (you might say, chaos regen SUCKS, but for crawlers, they get full hp quickly)
#2: they are faster

Which creates the possibility of: attacking, retreat, heal, attack, retreat, etc. and you cant even garrison your swords because then they will attack your miners.

Yep, just focus your swords on ONE crawler, they will be scared and run away and come back after long time (have to heal fully)