Lol quik I had to drag religion to this, because is MY personal and main reason to defend mt statement to don't kill anyone. But I'm actually fully agreed with what you said, any kind of murder/killing to another human being is awful.

And I have to disagree with imada's argument: "We are all going to die, so why should we care?". I challange you to go and kill you neighbor, why should you care? He will die anyways.

argh. That was not my point. We all have a fate which we cannot decide. It is INEVITABLE.
If we meet that fate sooner then it doesnt matter

Quote from Imada

argh. That was not my point. We all have a fate which we cannot decide. It is INEVITABLE.
If we meet that fate sooner then it doesnt matter

Not everyone has that mindset. Some people actually want to experience life before they die.

Quote from Imada

argh. That was not my point. We all have a fate which we cannot decide. It is INEVITABLE.
If we meet that fate sooner then it doesnt matter

I'd rather watch a movie than not watch it at all. It might turn out to be a shitty movie, but I won't know until I see it.
It might be a really good movie after all.

I know but according to Christiany, you go to heaven so its only a short-term Xperience

Quote from Imada

I know but according to Christiany, you go to heaven so its only a short-term Xperience

Your religious beliefs don't give you the right to regard human life as worthless.
Besides, according to christian beliefs, I'll burn in agonizing torment forever after I die, so this life should be even more precious to me.

But according to ancient egyptian 'mythology' you must learn to be able to kill or else you won't have a chance in getting into the afterlife. 'cos bitches in da afterlife gon kiyll ya'll.

Alright, I'll start off with the original statement;

Quote from Imada

Do you think that in any circumstances it is right to kill

Under some circumstances, yes. While we are omnivores, and the whole deal with vegetarianism could potentially be an entirely different debate; we humans slaughter animals to eat. While humans slaughter animals every day with little conscious thought, we have to go into thinking "What is a life?" Should we be the ones to decide that animals are lesser beings than humans, and therefore a human killing an animal is okay? What about carnivorous animals, who simply cannot survive off of vegitation, and more than that, what about the plants themselves? Are plants technically not "alive" either? The way we humans justify what is edible, and to some extent what is killable, is something of a superiority complex.

"I am hungry and so I will eat a pig."

This is/isn't morally sound because I do/don't consider a pig to be of less overall value than a human, and it therefore is/isnt okay for me to eat them. And even if you are vegetarian, you have to recognize, whether you believe you're eating a conscience, you are still is some ways "taking a life." That's the way we were created, whether you believe we were created by a god or trial and error, there was no point along the line where humans developed photosynthesis. We're only alive because of everything that died in order to feed us.

Quote from _camila_

I don't think I'm able to debate here; but I'll give my opinion anyway. According to my Christian beliefs, only god gives life and only him can take it. Unless he wants us by a commandment to take others' life. Even like that we're allowed to kill only and only if is strictly necessary, like a war, where we defend our home and family.

In other cases, I don't think that anyone has the right to kill.

What constitutes God "telling us by commandment to kill"? Recall the story of Pope Urban II and the First Crusade; There was a lot of senseless killing, and it was all justified under church jurisdiction. I encourage anyone who believes killing is right under God to research this.

I suppose we all have our word for it. God's will, enlightenment... it all comes from some inner source; the heart, no matter if we think the message was sent from a spiritual force, it wasn't persuasion, it was inception. Even if you feel this inner peace or decision came from God, it was you, not He, who formed your opinions with His help.

Now take this from an agnostic or atheist perspective. We have that same sort of inner enlightenment you do, but we question the source. Religious or not, understand that these "aha moments" can still be just as right or wrong whether we believe they came from a godly source or not. Adolf Hitler was also known as a Christian, and sent thousands of Jews to concentration camps, under the seemingly righteous vision that he was ending the "human plague" that had put Jesus to the cross and ruined his country.

So I think that no matter what religious views we have, we have to stop and say that basing your beliefs towards who has the freedom to kill is a very dangerous endeavor; perhaps it has more to do with personal philosophy and morals rather than anything you'll find in any religious text, be that the Qur'an, the Tor'ah (Old Testament), the Bible (Old and New Testaments), or anything else you might find in the religious section.

Now, let's do what this Agnostic does best; taking the religion out of universal issues and finding the morals. I can only assume this is your general belief set, correct me if I'm wrong:

-It isn't right for us to decide who deserves to die; we're only mortal.
I agree with this for the most part, but at the same time though, if I were placed in a position where my life or other's lives would be saved by killing, I could see myself going to that level, willingly or just out of fear. Not saying it's right, but we're not perfect either.

-Killing isn't something to be sought out; it may be necessary as a last resort but ONLY as a last resort.
This I agree with entirely. You can't just kill your boss because you're too lazy to earn a promotion yourself.

-Killing shouldn't be enjoyed; there should always be some level of guilt involved.
In a perfect world, I would agree with this. Though some people are able to go through stuff like that without much guilt but still do it for fairly righteous purposes; take the show "Dexter" for example. A psychopath with legit problems can still probably do what's right, even if they enjoy doing the killings more than they should.

Now for Imada;

Quote from Imada

argh. That was not my point. We all have a fate which we cannot decide. It is INEVITABLE.
If we meet that fate sooner then it doesnt matter

I think that to some extent it does matter. If you killed me know, I would never live to see a ring on my girl's finger, I would never be able to take my writing to the next level; I would never have children, I would never be able to raise a son or daughter and tell them all I know about the world, all I love and hate about it. If you were to kill me now, I would never see that future I'm trying to build; none of it. While a life itself may be a trivial thing, and cutting short a life to lengthen your own might seem harmless, that's a cruel blow. You can judge a life by length, but you can't judge the memories within it, memories you're cutting short, families you're tearing apart... while it's simple to say "We all die, I'm just speeding up the process." In reality, what business do you have, forcing people around like that, speeding up lives best lived long and glorious? What business do you have, taking friends and family. What will you say to those people, the people who have to live knowing you killed their beloved daughter, sweet sister, best of friends? Life is not worthless. You can physically control who lives or dies, but why should you? Justifying that with your own belief that life is worthless is a disturbing fallacy.

I think religious or not, it's important to have a moral code. That above all.

Quote from Chromium7

Alright, I'll start off with the original statement;



Under some circumstances, yes. While we are omnivores, and the whole deal with vegetarianism could potentially be an entirely different debate; we humans slaughter animals to eat. While humans slaughter animals every day with little conscious thought, we have to go into thinking "What is a life?" Should we be the ones to decide that animals are lesser beings than humans, and therefore a human killing an animal is okay? What about carnivorous animals, who simply cannot survive off of vegitation, and more than that, what about the plants themselves? Are plants technically not "alive" either? The way we humans justify what is edible, and to some extent what is killable, is something of a superiority complex.

"I am hungry and so I will eat a pig."

This is/isn't morally sound because I do/don't consider a pig to be of less overall value than a human, and it therefore is/isnt okay for me to eat them. And even if you are vegetarian, you have to recognize, whether you believe you're eating a conscience, you are still is some ways "taking a life." That's the way we were created, whether you believe we were created by a god or trial and error, there was no point along the line where humans developed photosynthesis. We're only alive because of everything that died in order to feed us.




What constitutes God "telling us by commandment to kill"? Recall the story of Pope Urban II and the First Crusade; There was a lot of senseless killing, and it was all justified under church jurisdiction. I encourage anyone who believes killing is right under God to research this.

I suppose we all have our word for it. God's will, enlightenment... it all comes from some inner source; the heart, no matter if we think the message was sent from a spiritual force, it wasn't persuasion, it was inception. Even if you feel this inner peace or decision came from God, it was you, not He, who formed your opinions with His help.

Now take this from an agnostic or atheist perspective. We have that same sort of inner enlightenment you do, but we question the source. Religious or not, understand that these "aha moments" can still be just as right or wrong whether we believe they came from a godly source or not. Adolf Hitler was also known as a Christian, and sent thousands of Jews to concentration camps, under the seemingly righteous vision that he was ending the "human plague" that had put Jesus to the cross and ruined his country.

So I think that no matter what religious views we have, we have to stop and say that basing your beliefs towards who has the freedom to kill is a very dangerous endeavor; perhaps it has more to do with personal philosophy and morals rather than anything you'll find in any religious text, be that the Qur'an, the Tor'ah (Old Testament), the Bible (Old and New Testaments), or anything else you might find in the religious section.

Now, let's do what this Agnostic does best; taking the religion out of universal issues and finding the morals. I can only assume this is your general belief set, correct me if I'm wrong:

-It isn't right for us to decide who deserves to die; we're only mortal.
I agree with this for the most part, but at the same time though, if I were placed in a position where my life or other's lives would be saved by killing, I could see myself going to that level, willingly or just out of fear. Not saying it's right, but we're not perfect either.

-Killing isn't something to be sought out; it may be necessary as a last resort but ONLY as a last resort.
This I agree with entirely. You can't just kill your boss because you're too lazy to earn a promotion yourself.

-Killing shouldn't be enjoyed; there should always be some level of guilt involved.
In a perfect world, I would agree with this. Though some people are able to go through stuff like that without much guilt but still do it for fairly righteous purposes; take the show "Dexter" for example. A psychopath with legit problems can still probably do what's right, even if they enjoy doing the killings more than they should.

Now for Imada;



I think that to some extent it does matter. If you killed me know, I would never live to see a ring on my girl's finger, I would never be able to take my writing to the next level; I would never have children, I would never be able to raise a son or daughter and tell them all I know about the world, all I love and hate about it. If you were to kill me now, I would never see that future I'm trying to build; none of it. While a life itself may be a trivial thing, and cutting short a life to lengthen your own might seem harmless, that's a cruel blow. You can judge a life by length, but you can't judge the memories within it, memories you're cutting short, families you're tearing apart... while it's simple to say "We all die, I'm just speeding up the process." In reality, what business do you have, forcing people around like that, speeding up lives best lived long and glorious? What business do you have, taking friends and family. What will you say to those people, the people who have to live knowing you killed their beloved daughter, sweet sister, best of friends? Life is not worthless. You can physically control who lives or dies, but why should you? Justifying that with your own belief that life is worthless is a disturbing fallacy.

I think religious or not, it's important to have a moral code. That above all.

spoken like a soilder

perfectly summed this up I think, if you could win an argument I would say you just did

Quote from Leokill

Your religious beliefs don't give you the right to regard human life as worthless.
Besides, according to christian beliefs, I'll burn in agonizing torment forever after I die, so this life should be even more precious to me.

Whoop
Athiests: 1
Christans: 0

Me and Camila talked about this. The only thing to really sum this up is "There shouldn't be a freedom to kill unless under extreme circumstances"

Then what is your definition of extreme circumstances.
The more I type the more I have a Christion beleif

Quote from Imada

Then what is your definition of extreme circumstances.
The more I type the more I have a Christion beleif

I would kill, if I knew that it would save the lives of many innocent people. Also it helps if the one who is going to be killed deserves it.
I wouldn't kill for revenge or punishment, only to ensure the safety of innocents, because lethal punishment doesn't teach a lesson. It's just termination.

My morality can be summed up with: Reduce the overall suffering of living things as effectively as possible. Sometimes, some people just need to die. Enabling evil by allowing it to happen is just as bad as doing it yourself.

Only if your life, of many others' life is in danger, you could defend yourself and kill the attacker. Is not like god will throw you to hell cus you defended your life, specially if you didn't want to kill the person, but you just had to.

Quote from _camila_

It does matter if someone gets killed, because god has plans for our life, with plans I mean to Lear thing in this earth and progress intellectual and espiritually, by killing others we're ruining those "achievments"

If you believe in god, you should at least have heard I the 10 commandments, there one that says to DON'T kill.

Edit: xero that's why I said that I'm not able to debate here, my opinion is what I think about this cases, and I'll not change my mind.

Unless you want me to tell yo the whole story of my life, I can't show you a paper signed by the president that proofs god's existence. I believe in him only by faith and personal experinces. That's why I was just giving my opinion.

I totally agree, life is like a big test, if someone kills another guy its like tearing the work paper and completely destroying it so the test is not complete

Strange, I thought of it sorta as a very long story that writes itself...
I figured killing someone would be like ending one long story that could have been beautiful...