Amen Balistiik

Quote from dabigE13

no i am not gay.
and if you would like me to comment not based off religion, i have 3 reasons. 1) gay people do not love each other and its only a perversion (ever heard the term kinky?) no matter how else you want to put it. and they lie about they're motives to make it seem like they're not twisted perverts. 2) gay people dont keep to themselves and they are constantly trying to convince others its ok to be gay. now you could believe thats fine and they're not teaching anything bad but they're upsetting many people by it, so whose to say its better then me convincing someone not to be gay. 3) Aids. they're the main spreaders of it and its a dangerous disease.

1) How you can tell they don't love each other? And there are heterosexual couples that don't love each other. There are heterosexual people who have sex, with no love involved, ALL THE TIME.
2) I see more heterosexual couples showing themselfs everywhere. It's hard when everybody it's against you, you need the aproval of people. Everybody wants to be acepted by everybody. You like spaghetties? then it's normal to tell your friends "spaghetti is great". Nobody will tell you that's a sin.
3) Condoms. Gay couples use condoms has well. AND, there are a lot of people, heterosexual people, who have sex with no kind of protections at parties, clubs, etc.
ALL of your arguments are invalid.

Quote from Zaix

They probably find it disgusting

This is very accurate. Let's think about it from this perspective: Two ugly people, or old people having sex is probably pretty disgusting to you, regardless of their gender, but you wouldn't ban ugly people from having sex because of that, would you? The idea may disgust you, but that doesn't give you the right to say that it's morally wrong, or inappropriate.

Quote from Scarecrow

homosexuality is the product of the presence of too much estrogen in a male system. that is to say, there's a scientific reason for it, and people who are gay can't help it.

you should not judge people for the circumstances they are born into.

It didn't take long for this debate to be wrapped up nice and tight.

Quote from Leokill

1) This is false. Gay people love each other just as much as heterosexual people do. The hormones at work are exactly the same.

2) This is generalization. I could use this to say that I hate all Christians because they don't keep to themselves about their religion, and try to indoctrinate people. Not a valid reason.

3) Wait, what? Wha- You hate gay people because... Aids exists? And they spread it? Among themselves? Other sexually transmitted diseases also exist. Heterosexual people spread them way more than gays, because homosexuals are a minority. Is this a valid reason to hate heterosexual people then?

Didn't think so.



Christianity: Distorting, suppressing and demonizing natural human sexuality since 33 CE.

it is not false. T.V., pop culture gay is not real gay. real gay people are two versions, people who have had back luck with women/men, are rejected by society and decide to switch this way, people that are perverted and need a disgusting kinky sexual tension that they find in there own kind. the same as the old men that rapes little boys and girls, and men that rape dogs and animals. like i said its a perversion, if you've ever seen it for real. (and yes i do believe in them being born with to much estrogen and im sure that doesnt help them)

this is actually true that christians spread there beliefs way too much. and i in no way support it because i learned a long time ago that if they dont want to learn then they wont allow themselves to be taught. therefor my argument is completely valid that gays shouldnt convince people that dont know better into thinking its ok.

i dont hate gays, and i dont appreciate you putting words in my mouth making me seem like a bad person. if you hadn't notice i believe in God who teaches us to love all. i disagree with them in every way, but i never used the word hate. but yes a reason i DISAGREE with them, is they spread a dangerous disease.

Quote from Scarecrow

homosexuality is the product of the presence of too much estrogen in a male system. that is to say, there's a scientific reason for it, and people who are gay can't help it.

you should not judge people for the circumstances they are born into.

This is sometimes the issue, but most of the time it is just a choice.

Being gay is condemned by most religions, and considering that I'm religious I am personally against it, but in today's society where everything is run on the basis that all people are equal, I must accept that there are gay people within our community and they are free to do what ever they want with there lives.
So yes I am against gays, but do not have the right to hurt them or enforce them to change there ideas.

I'm very very close to removing dabigE's access to this forum completely. Not only are you not citing facts or using conventional logic, you're blindly shouting opinions and then getting pissy when people disagree. Start backing yourself up, or I will remove you.

Quote from Hidro

If you apply the first definition, then it is wrong, however, moral is something defined by a community of humans beings, and as such, its different in time and in space.
Personally, I do not see it as "wrong", however, when I see a gay person, it does gives me the creeps, and I do my best to avoid them.

This is false. Morality is entirely subjective and should not be used as a classification for if something is "right or wrong". A group of people in any situation can define what is moral among themselves, but that is specific to that group. If a bunch of christian cultists like the westboro baptist church declare it immoral among themselves for people to be black, then by definition it would be wrong for someone to be black, but only to them. This is why being subjective matters, because it doesn't hold ground as a solid fact, it varies by group.

Quote from Ahmad9383

This is sometimes the issue, but most of the time it is just a choice.

Anyone who thinks it's a "choice" to be gay is stupid. You aren't basing this statement on any sort of evidence or fact, you're just parroting misinformed nonsense. Being gay isn't even specific to humans; do animals choose to be gay? Being gay is no more a choice than choosing which hand is your dominant hand. Can you suddenly choose which hand you favor? If you're saying "yes", you're likely kidding yourself so that you can feel correct. Even if you choose to start using your left hand (if you're right handed), your other hand will still be the one your body naturally favors. This video goes over the subject adequately.

AIDS are just STDs, which can be just as deadly, gays shouldnt be condemned for spreading ONE commonly known virus when unsafe hetero can do practically the same. Gays are ok, and some people to need to stop being twats, follow the sensible people, and LISTEN to people like Jeff, Scarecrow, and anyone else who actually thinks being urself is ok

I believe this thread won't work if we continue on the religious basis here, because though your religious, other people aren't dabige. You need to prove your point using logic.

Quote from Jeff

I'm very very close to removing dabigE's access to this forum completely. Not only are you not citing facts or using conventional logic, you're blindly shouting opinions and then getting pissy when people disagree. Start backing yourself up, or I will remove you.



This is false. Morality is entirely subjective and should not be used as a classification for if something is "right or wrong". A group of people in any situation can define what is moral among themselves, but that is specific to that group. If a bunch of christian cultists like the westboro baptist church declare it immoral among themselves for people to be black, then by definition it would be wrong for someone to be black, but only to them. This is why being subjective matters, because it doesn't hold ground as a solid fact, it varies by group.

i mean this as respectfully as possible but, i dont see that ive done anything wrong here. i stepped back from religious opinions and told my thoughts on it without the back of my belief of it being a sin, anyone who has seen real homosexuals, vs. the ones they've seen on tv, would vouch that its inaccurate what theyre feeding the viewers. so thats a decent fact if not atleast i decent statement. i dont see any better facts then that on this forum. halfway through i decided the subject was based to much on opinion and was thinking of stopping posting. and i dont believe ill be posting in this section much more anyways. and i mean this respectfully but, im beginning to question the impartiality of this forum sections moderators. because ive seen way worse posts on this section and hardly any of the debate rules are followed, it almost always turns into a personal argument of name calling and immaturity. or did you miss the part of scarecrow calling us mindless cult member drones? that didnt sound like a debate, it sounded like an insult to me.

Quote from dabigE13

i mean this as respectfully as possible but, i dont see that ive done anything wrong here. i stepped back from religious opinions and told my thoughts on it without the back of my belief of it being a sin, anyone who has seen real homosexuals, vs. the ones they've seen on tv, would vouch that its inaccurate what theyre feeding the viewers. so thats a decent fact if not atleast i decent statement. i dont see any better facts then that on this forum. halfway through i decided the subject was based to much on opinion and was thinking of stopping posting. and i dont believe ill be posting in this section much more anyways. and i mean this respectfully but, im beginning to question the impartiality of this forum sections moderators. because ive seen way worse posts on this section and hardly any of the debate rules are followed, it almost always turns into a personal argument of name calling and immaturity.

^I agree.

To be honest, the concept with the bible stating homosexual relations is forbidden is contradictory and hypocritical. The bible states that people have the freedom to live as they wish with no bounds. And yet they disallow homosexuality. Freedom... But you cant be free about how you handle your homosexuality. This idea is incredibly hypocritical and dumb, so in any case i think the excuse "In the bible it says its bad" can be ruled out entirely, because the bible nullifies that.

Quote from Jeff

I'm very very close to removing dabigE's access to this forum completely. Not only are you not citing facts or using conventional logic, you're blindly shouting opinions and then getting pissy when people disagree. Start backing yourself up, or I will remove you.



This is false. Morality is entirely subjective and should not be used as a classification for if something is "right or wrong". A group of people in any situation can define what is moral among themselves, but that is specific to that group. If a bunch of christian cultists like the westboro baptist church declare it immoral among themselves for people to be black, then by definition it would be wrong for someone to be black, but only to them. This is why being subjective matters, because it doesn't hold ground as a solid fact, it varies by group.



Anyone who thinks it's a "choice" to be gay is stupid. You aren't basing this statement on any sort of evidence or fact, you're just parroting misinformed nonsense. Being gay isn't even specific to humans; do animals choose to be gay? Being gay is no more a choice than choosing which hand is your dominant hand. Can you suddenly choose which hand you favor? If you're saying "yes", you're likely kidding yourself so that you can feel correct. Even if you choose to start using your left hand (if you're right handed), your other hand will still be the one your body naturally favors. This video goes over the subject adequately.

Well, i know a lot of people who choosed being gay, but because they tried and liked it ._.
And some other persons who just did it for calling attention. "Oh look i'm gay/bisexual. I'll take pictures of myself with my short hair and my girlfriend (in case of being a girl) and i'll upload them to facebook so people will say "OMG she have so much confidence about her sexuality" so they'll give me a lot of likes"

Quote from dabigE13

i mean this as respectfully as possible but, i dont see that ive done anything wrong here. i stepped back from religion opinions and told my thoughts on it without the back of my belief of it being a sin, anyone who has seen real homosexuals, vs. the ones they've seen on tv, would vouch that its inaccurate what theyre feeding the public. so thats a decent fact if not atleast i decent statement. i dont see any better facts then that on this forum. halfway through i decided the subject was based to much on opinion and was thinking of stopping posting anyways. and i dont believe ill be posting in this section much more anyways. and i mean this respectfully but, im beginning to question the impartiality of this forum sections moderators. because ive seen way worse posts on this section and hardly any of the debate rules are followed, it almost always turns into a personal argument of name calling and immaturity.

Because you're immaturely passing off opinions as fact using false or no logic. For example:

gay people do not love each other and its only a perversion (ever heard the term kinky?) no matter how else you want to put it. and they lie about they're motives to make it seem like they're not twisted perverts.

Where is your evidence? You state this like it's a fact yet fail to provide any citations to ANYTHING that could back up this thought. This line is also evidence that you fail to even understand the subject you started a debate on, and it seems like you just wanted a place for people to act as yes-men so you could feel justified in your bigotry and hate. Being gay isn't a perversion. Have you ever met any gay person? There are perverts who happen to be gay, but being gay doesn't mean you're in it for the sex. That's a narrow minded and ignorant view point. There are plenty of loose women out there that love to sleep around and fuck random dudes, just ask Highly. Being gay means either or both an emotional and/or physical attraction to the same sex. I know chicks that love other chicks and have 0 desire to have any sex. One does not equate to the other, it's a logical fallacy, something you seem to have no concept of.

This section favors those who treat is properly. Unfortunately, often times the people I infract for misusing it are narrow-minded religious zealots or immature children that are incapable of doing as I suggested and supporting their arguments with logic, reasoning AND evidence based in reality. This section is for intelligent debates, not mindless mudslinging from kids who aren't old enough to understand certain philosophical and abstract concepts. Many of you have simply been indoctrinated from birth by your parents or community and you just don't know any better, and that's not your fault. You've been let down by your parents and your community and those who did not allow you learn objectively and decide for yourself. Unfortunately this is a problem in sections like that, because the logic you've been taught to use when deciding your opinion on something isn't adequate for scientific or intelligent discussion. Many of the arguments I see in here seem like they came from a 10-year-old who's just repeating what their parents or religious officials told them.

Again, if you're not going to play by our rules, you don't get to participate in these discussions. This is not up for debate.

EDIT:

Quote from LFlL0

Well, i know a lot of people who choosed being gay, but because they tried and liked it ._.
And some other persons who just did it for calling attention. "Oh look i'm gay/bisexual. I'll take pictures of myself with my short hair and my girlfriend (in case of being a girl) and i'll upload them to facebook so people will say "OMG she have so much confidence about her sexuality" so they'll give me a lot of likes"

Some people do this for attention, yes. I'm not saying every case is legitimate. It irritates me when someone decides to play attention whore by announcing their sexual preference because they think it makes them unique or that people will get upset about it so they can act like they're fighting a cause. HOWEVER, a few bad apples do not spoil the bunch, so to speak. Your personal experience with a handful of people doesn't mean everyone is like that, that's a horrible generalization to make. I've had bad experiences with people who like My Little Pony, but I don't think every person who likes that show is a piece of shit twink asshole looking for attention.

Quote from Jeff

Because you're immaturely passing off opinions as fact using false or no logic. For example:



Where is your evidence? You state this like it's a fact yet fail to provide any citations to ANYTHING that could back up this thought. This line is also evidence that you fail to even understand the subject you started a debate on, and it seems like you just wanted a place for people to act as yes-men so you could feel justified in your bigotry and hate. Being gay isn't a perversion. Have you ever met any gay person? There are perverts who happen to be gay, but being gay doesn't mean you're in it for the sex. That's a narrow minded and ignorant view point. There are plenty of loose women out there that love to sleep around and fuck random dudes, just ask Highly. Being gay means either or both an emotional and/or physical attraction to the same sex. I know chicks that love other chicks and have 0 desire to have any sex. One does not equate to the other, it's a logical fallacy, something you seem to have no concept of.

This section favors those who treat is properly. Unfortunately, often times the people I infract for misusing it are narrow-minded religious zealots or immature children that are incapable of doing as I suggested and supporting their arguments with logic, reasoning AND evidence based in reality. This section is for intelligent debates, not mindless mudslinging from kids who aren't old enough to understand certain philosophical and abstract concepts. Many of you have simply been indoctrinated from birth by your parents or community and you just don't know any better, and that's not your fault. You've been let down by your parents and your community and those who did not allow you learn objectively and decide for yourself. Unfortunately this is a problem in sections like that, because the logic you've been taught to use when deciding your opinion on something isn't adequate for scientific or intelligent discussion. Many of the arguments I see in here seem like they came from a 10-year-old who's just repeating what their parents or religious officials told them.

Again, if you're not going to play by our rules, you don't get to participate in these discussions. This is not up for debate.

i still believe my argument wasnt disobeying that, since i have met gay men and seen this, but i wont argue in fear of punishment. thank you for not banning me.
everyone, the subject is still up for debate but still stay respectful and, as jeff said, apply facts with your statements.