Quote from Nish

Did someone say Archer?

Whattt??? Noo.

Archer

Archer?
Fate Zero pls

Quote from TheLegendofKaito

what the actual fuck
you miss the point of the CA comparison
SLIGHT?
SLIGHT????
watch this replay --> here
it is bad
it sucks a lot of shit
it is one of the most shittiest units of the game now


and airs
ele has no good air unit
eclipsors > airs
albows > airs
albows > cycloids
albows > cycloids
they all attack the same unit at once, which is terrible for targeting multiple need to kill units as you don't have the reliability that comes with arrows that they will go through the unit towards others after it has been killed
they are slow as hell in attacking
etc

I'll try to keep this short.

Okay, I did miss the point of the replay as I stopped mid-way. However, it is not really a comparison or proof that waters got nerfed hard as you didn't test this before the update. I doubt waters could do very much against 3 castle archers even before the nerfs before happened. It's simply moronic to test this with 3 castle archers. In my experience in-game, the water heal isn't too different from what it used to be. Waters could still do with a buff though.

Your argument about the ele air force is inaccurate. You are right about wings, however airs are cheaper and faster than albows, they will beat albows if you have a steady eco. Your comparison with cycloids is, if possible, even more inaccurate. Cycloids are not a combat unit, it's like saying merics suck because they can't beat archers. Cycloids provide cover for other units to swoop in, so : Cycloid + fires/airs > wings and albows. Also in some cases: Cycloid > albows.

Like DaZ said, it's not worth arguing seriously. I may reply if you reply but that would be the last time.

Quote from nutsophast

I'll try to keep this short.

Okay, I did miss the point of the replay as I stopped mid-way. However, it is not really a comparison or proof that waters got nerfed hard as you didn't test this before the update. I doubt waters could do very much against 3 castle archers even before the nerfs before happened. It's simply moronic to test this with 3 castle archers. In my experience in-game, the water heal isn't too different from what it used to be. Waters could still do with a buff though.

Your argument about the ele air force is inaccurate. You are right about wings, however airs are cheaper and faster than albows, they will beat albows if you have a steady eco. Your comparison with cycloids is, if possible, even more inaccurate. Cycloids are not a combat unit, it's like saying merics suck because they can't beat archers. Cycloids provide cover for other units to swoop in, so : Cycloid + fires/airs > wings and albows. Also in some cases: Cycloid > albows.

Like DaZ said, it's not worth arguing seriously. I may reply if you reply but that would be the last time.

My bringing the CA in was to show how easy it will be now for people to destroy ele. Again you are missing the point and revolving it around the CA. It could be done with mages, or swords with rage, the point is that ele sucks at healing now. Water is very different; you can find an old replay and view it. I'm pretty sure 3 waters with their upgrade should be enough to heal a charrog from near-zero to full, but as you can see, it is nerfed so much that even that isn't happening.

No, you are ignoring my point about airs not having the correct target capabilities. Of course they are cheaper, again that's not the point. This has to be put with the cycloid argument as well. Cycloid was terribly nerfed, it's protect is near useless. Cycloids are a melee unit, they are a combat unit, derp. Cycloids do not heal units like merics do, your comparison is terrible. The tornado also misses in general, and doesn't do much either. Your parity with the cycloid + xx >xx is all fine and well, except wings can kite the cycloids to death quite easily. Cycloids are not a tank. Once they were used as support, but they are like the V now. And when airs are together, arrows kill them very quickly. Fires can be out-ranged easily. Plus, wings have auto-heal.

Elemental Anti Air = sucks.
Elemental Heal = sucks.

Quote from TheLegendofKaito

Elemental Anti Air = sucks.
Elemental Heal = sucks.

But
Elemental Tanks = OP
Elemental spell casters = no counter when rushed

Quote from Skeletonxf

But
Elemental Tanks = OP
Elemental spell casters = no counter when rushed

ninja = one hit kill V + inferno
wall = block cycloid
medusa = one hit kill V + cycloid + inferno
marrowkai = reap tankers
wall + magikill = a middle finger to the tankers.

btw I rarely see anyone rank classic with ele , and the only one who ranks with ele is OxManaT, who plays quite bad
as long as no one know how to use ele/play against ele, so the arguements are quite useless.

Agusbartolucci (miscrits) ranks eles, has typical charrogs doing typical charrog things. He and Mr Fokkeris why I rank chaos, because screw that.

Wyz, did you challenge Ripple while he was at Smashing Grounds?

Quote from WyzDM

Agusbartolucci (miscrits) ranks eles, has typical charrogs doing typical charrog things. He and Mr Fokkeris why I rank chaos, because screw that.

rank with chaos is interesting. Get two turrets + some wings + 1 medusa with venom flux, it is auto win.

Charrog is never a threat for me, trees are much more dangerous .

Except castle shit, CvE is always easy

Quote from Raptor

Wyz, did you challenge Ripple while he was at Smashing Grounds?

I did, games were closer than I thought. He was clutch though, and earned his two dollars.

Quote from TheLegendofKaito

My bringing the CA in was to show how easy it will be now for people to destroy ele. Again you are missing the point and revolving it around the CA. It could be done with mages, or swords with rage, the point is that ele sucks at healing now. Water is very different; you can find an old replay and view it. I'm pretty sure 3 waters with their upgrade should be enough to heal a charrog from near-zero to full, but as you can see, it is nerfed so much that even that isn't happening.

No, you are ignoring my point about airs not having the correct target capabilities. Of course they are cheaper, again that's not the point. This has to be put with the cycloid argument as well. Cycloid was terribly nerfed, it's protect is near useless. Cycloids are a melee unit, they are a combat unit, derp. Cycloids do not heal units like merics do, your comparison is terrible. The tornado also misses in general, and doesn't do much either. Your parity with the cycloid + xx >xx is all fine and well, except wings can kite the cycloids to death quite easily. Cycloids are not a tank. Once they were used as support, but they are like the V now. And when airs are together, arrows kill them very quickly. Fires can be out-ranged easily. Plus, wings have auto-heal.

Elemental Anti Air = sucks.
Elemental Heal = sucks.

Right, I forgot about the air. I don't know what you mean by target capabilities. If you're talking about how long it takes for it to switch targets, well let me explain. The air starts the attack animation when it goes in range right? But if you switch targets right when it starts the animation, the animation will restart, and you won't do any damage. It is very easy to avoid this, before the air gets in range and starts the animation, target the unit you want to hit like a meric for example. Then when it does get in range and start the animation it will target the meric.

Now, let me explain why the air is so good. When a unit like an, archer for example, gets into an air's range, it starts it's attack animation right? When it starts the animation, no matter how far the archer goes, the bolt will still hit the archer. Now 3 bolts will insta-kill an archer, if you have 3 airs and you target the archer, you will insta-kill the archer before your enemy has any time to react, then you retreat. You can use airs to great effect if you just practice with them (which I highly doubt you did).

I think you misinterpreted many of the ele units uses. First, you are seriously expecting too much from water. Old water healed around 40% hp or more when the charrog was taking damage. Water should not be able to heal that much when you are taking damage from CA, mage etc. That kind of ability should be left to order. You don't need an op water to break turtles anyway, if you change all your low hp units to infernos and charrogs, I find that combo works pretty well.

Second, the cycloid. Your argument about the cycloid is pathetic. "Cycloids are a melee unit, they are a combat unit, derp" Are you serious? Anyways, V can do melee, does that mean it's a combat unit? Cycloid melee is shit to nothing, it sucks as a combat unit, I suppose that's why you're all saying it's weak. Protect wasn't nerfed hard, it still has it's benefits. Tornado missing is because you can't aim, if you aim for the shadows under the wings or any flying unit in general, it will prove more accurate. Cycloid is going to be defending the fires and going ahead of them, but it won't be rushing like mad. Also keep in mind you have charrogs. Cycloids are as good of an air tank as you can get. Yes fires will get out-ranged, but you can use charrogs + cycloid to drive them into the chaos base, then you can burn everthing.
Airs will get picked off yes, but only if you're stupid enough not to have a tank.

Looks like I might have to eat my words though, I'm probably replying again. XD

@mystery Blasphemy
Ninja: cycloid protect.
wall: inferno
Medusa: That's why you keep them safe.
Marrowkai: Yes it will reap tankers, but only one at a time.
Wall + magikill: CHinferno + water.

Also, CHfire gets rid of turrets and wings. Cycloid, and earth can keep the medusa from spellcasting, besides the chaos player is usually burnt to a crisp before they can pump out spellcasters (which usually happens around 6:00). I doubt you will reply anyway.

@wyz Never knew argus was miscrits. Also, fokker ranks ele now?

> Implies ele can break turtle
> V's clones do shitloads of dps
> lol cycloid joke for everything but killing archers

yeyeye

I am going to be honest with you guys, I feel more like an idiot than I ever did, I feel soooo stupid right now. I just assumed that healing more evenly couldn't possibly be a nerf, but I made a very big mistake. Water got nerfed really badly. It barely heals one bar of health! CJ, what were you thinking!

Is it just me or is SE losing it's spice?

I'd say it's getting old for seasoned players who are used to significant changes every month or so.