Quote from Hewitt

Just forget about the Q&A for a second, channel your inner FA and recall what it was all about at the time. I'm genuinely curious.

I find that there are actually many archaic mechanics that have lingered since then that arent necessarily a point now such as the need to divide the Clans into territories or the "shops" that are suppose to cater the use of Oz. It might have been funny back then, but newbies are coming here everyday and attempting to join or open shops in the Resource section and I'm surprised nobody is raising an eyebrow thinking "wait, dont we get paid for this shit?"

If I remember well, it was hardcore as shit (at least, when I joined (when I joined, I tried to join one clan and I knew most just by reading about the rules Stone once set (I wasn't looking around that much))
It was about team-bonding with joint wars and collaborations and being treated in the same way as a damn soldier ("fighting" when requested against other "territories", losing/acquiring members in case of defeat/victory (yes, you could have more than 6 in this way), having your own clan armory and clan sounds library, ecc.). Threads were places in which mostly members posted and only a selected few could be found posting on clan threads while not being members. The point system was extremely competitive, but procured also extreme satisfaction in most cases

About oz, it had a downside (unnecessary posting for oz), but it also had a genenuily stimulating feeling towards achievement

I gotta admit that, from there to her, we kinda lost something
Actually, to be quite honest, I applied when the contest for the place as a RHG moderator (or about that RHGT thing) was up with the desire to do "something" (not exactly the same thing as FA, since I remembered about these things only by using the time machine and finding my old posts, but I wanted (and still want) to bring back some kind of activity on this section)

most of the art on our front page, (for those who dont know, i mean crysis) :) CRYSIS...is for fun, and so that the clan FP wont look too boring with all the writing , and big letters that ppl use nowadays :>) so like....

Quote from Drone

Most of the art on front pages nowaadays is garbage so like...

Thats putting it lightly .__. but yea pretty much

Quote from V Rain V

So wait, non-clan members cant post in clan forums? What is that crap?

The rule serves more use than you think. The idea was that if you wanted to bond with everyone, you would goto General Section. Nobody does this. If Clan threads were all self-contained, they would actually focus more on getting things done because they wouldn't be so distracted. You can argue that maybe users would just fuck around on their own without doing a thing. Well at least, it would be their own goddam fault instead of being the general mood of clans. If Clans were closed, member-only places, Clans would actually be more productive.

Now you might say, hold up: what about NEMESIS. What about Zetabrand (when they were active). They had visitors everyday. Well, that's just it; they're visitors. The only reason why NEMESIS has tons of views and activity everyday is because and I'm going to be blunt about this most of the visitors just wanna see and talk to a girl. There I said it. You can't say that hasn't crossed your mind.

Quote from V Rain V

When I was here I feel like clan threads were meant for bonding, getting your name out there, and also getting support from other RHG's and other clans. I Suppose it makes a little sense in terms of spamming or trash talking. But if someone wanted to stop by and see how everyone is doing.. well.. cmon now...

Let's break it down:

Bonding: You can do that plenty in the Clan threads in terms of interacting with your own members. You wanna know why Clan members are always so lax now? Because they have no threat to job security. In this day and age, anyone can just clan jump or make a clan on their own without any consequences. And because you can virtually go anywhere to talk to a Clan, you are virtually distracted by any and every clan to worry about your own. Bonding my ass. If you want to talk to everyone, goto General Discussion. RHG Clans are for RHG Clan stuff.

Getting your name out there: Oh please. When has a clan who isn't NEMESIS or Zetabrand ever gotten recognition for anything other than "starting up a clan of your own". Starting your own clan used to mean something. It used to mean that the creator was competent enough to mentor 1-6 people. Now its just because one member didn't get his way and he decided if he was in charge everyone will join him and he can dictate the weeklies and lead stuff. You don't even have alot of battles under your belt; usually you'd just make one now just to be in a clan, to begin with so getting in a clan with the notoriety of having an RHG is pointless now.

Getting Support from other RHGs: Do you not get CNC'd when you post your battles? Do you not get cnc when you first start up and make your demo? What "Support" are we talking about here. Most clans are just made up of newbs leading newbs. And because of the turnover rate of users giving up easy to start their own clan there is barely any history save for the already established Merge clans. If they have been awhile for a long time but haven't made anything lately, then they are just chatting each other up like bros but not growing in productivity.

There is no rule stopping visitors. You can visit. But there are visitors and there are guests. What does popping in to say "omg nice clan you got here" in the middle of a Clan only session have any merit for? And if you deny these people, you will be demonized as elitist? Please. You want to stop by to see how people are doing, you goto General and have fun. Clans are for Clan Time.

Quote from DiPi

I gotta admit that, from there to her, we kinda lost something
Actually, to be quite honest, I applied when the contest for the place as a RHG moderator (or about that RHGT thing) was up with the desire to do "something" (not exactly the same thing as FA, since I remembered about these things only by using the time machine and finding my old posts, but I wanted (and still want) to bring back some kind of activity on this section)

I asked because I know that there was talk in the batcave about reducing "Clan Spam" or essentially what is happening now is that every clan is basically acting like their own chat thread. Now I have been against the creation of rules for the Clan section since the beginning of the Merge, but that was only because I believed that the veterans would mentor the noobs well enough. Nope...they either quit, went inactive, or went to the Dojo ashamed from all this faggotry.

I ask because I think now is a good time to once again open up a Clan Moderation thread, a proposal to initiate some rules to bring back some of that old goodness. This place has so much potential and I used to lurk FA Clan threads for this reason. I just feel like, it's been left to its own devices for way too long.

Quote from Hewitt

The only reason why NEMESIS has tons of views and activity everyday is because and I'm going to be blunt about this most of the visitors just wanna see and talk to a girl. There I said it. You can't say that hasn't crossed your mind

Actually, I always thought it was the other way around: people post on Nemesis mainly because it usually holds the most popular animators of the moment (Yun, Guz, Cocaine Eyes (Resh), my lovely Poppy, KidKei, ecc.)

Quote from Hewitt

I asked because I know that there was talk in the batcave about reducing "Clan Spam" or essentially what is happening now is that every clan is basically acting like their own chat thread. Now I have been against the creation of rules for the Clan section since the beginning of the Merge, but that was only because I believed that the veterans would mentor the noobs well enough. Nope...they either quit, went inactive, or went to the Dojo ashamed from all this faggotry.

I ask because I think now is a good time to once again open up a Clan Moderation thread, a proposal to initiate some rules to bring back some of that old goodness. This place has so much potential and I used to lurk FA Clan threads for this reason. I just feel like, it's been left to its own devices for way too long.

You're wrong: veterans didn't disappear because of "faggotry", but because of money XD
Kidding: I don't know if they all really left because of this "decadence" or because of something else

Anyway, taking the risk of sounding like an ass-licker, I see this can be a good idea. However, it can be done only if it doesn't end up like RHGT (with the organizers forgetting about it)

i didn't want to get into this but Dipi said its good to read others opinions and state yours, because you can learn alot from each other

Quote from Hewitt

If Clans were closed, member-only places, Clans would actually be more productive.

i disagree.
As an animator, i can say for all animators, we sometimes need motivation from others to push us forward now-and-then, a simple thought, or cheerio of good will to us can go really far in making a collab or full length anim, when life distracts you and feel u like giving up on animating.
to me (me) doing that would just make animating in clans less fun, and that is one of the reasons ppl go solo and leave clans because of no motivation/help or attention from outsiders, so the clan eventually dies, its basically what feeds an animator.
however, im not trying to say you wouldn't understand because you dont animate day-to-day, i'm just stating my opinion, cool? i only read the first paragraph so i reply to that, cool
my point is, help/good will does not distract us, it motivates us, and productivy depends on you (the animator), and being alone wouldn't change that because if you don't want to do something, you wont. its depends on you, and the influence of others
you can be pushed to be productive, but being alone CERTAINLY DOES NOT help

Quote from DiPi

Actually, I always thought it was the other way around: people post on Nemesis mainly because it usually holds the most popular animators of the moment (Yun, Guz, Cocaine Eyes (Resh), my lovely Poppy, KidKei, ecc.)

i agree.
i only used to visit and comment there often when guz and yun were there

Money hahah.

Quote from DiPi

Actually, I always thought it was the other way around: people post on Nemesis mainly because it usually holds the most popular animators of the moment (Yun, Guz, Cocaine Eyes (Resh), my lovely Poppy, KidKei, ecc.)

Oh really, then what was the reason when they were just fresh off the boat? These people^ weren't around until way later when NEMESIS began changing members and Resh became a mainstay. Moreover, most of these celebs also had clans of their own at the time yet their threads were empty save for their own member's chattering. Cami has a magnetic personality because she's a woman. It's really also why for the longest time the most viewed and posted RHG Thread was Rosie's (before the rule implementing the banning of Chatting in those threads went into effect).

Quote from DiPi

Anyway, taking the risk of sounding like an ass-licker, I see this can be a good idea. However, it can be done only if it doesn't end up like RHGT (with the organizers forgetting about it)

RHGT failed because it always needed a group of people to keep it active unlike the RHG and Clan system itself which regulates from a bunch of standalone rules. What I am proposing is just an update to the rules. If we put a sign discouraging or even punishing jumpers, maybe it will stop all these rampant noobs from running amok. I dunno...

Quote from Mark XD

i didn't want to get into this but Dipi said its good to read others opinions and state yours, because you can learn alot from each other


i disagree.
As an animator, i can say for all animators, we sometimes need motivation from others to push us forward now-and-then, a simple thought, or cheerio of good will to us can go really far in making a collab or full length anim, when life distracts you and feel u like giving up on animating.
to me (me) doing that would just make animating in clans less fun, and that is one of the reasons ppl go solo and leave clans because of no motivation/help or attention from outsiders, so the clan eventually dies, its basically what feeds an animator.
however, im not trying to say you wouldn't understand because you dont animate day-to-day, i'm just stating my opinion, cool? i only read the first paragraph so i reply to that, cool
my point is, help/good will does not distract us, it motivates us, and productivy depends on you (the animator), and being alone wouldn't change that because if you don't want to do something, you wont. its depends on you, and the influence of others
you can be pushed to be productive, but being alone CERTAINLY DOES NOT help

It's no problem for someone like you, who understands what animating is all about, to moderate the content coming into your clan threads. But try telling every noob out there with a clan of their own who they made on a whim that this moderation should exist. I'm not asking that Clans be complete shutouts, just that in the past clans have been more productive and they didn't need everyone and their uncle coming in to say hi. That is both events are mutually exclusive and only biased by your personal experiences. It is why I asked dipi and not you.

Quote from Hewitt

1
Oh really, then what was the reason when they were just fresh off the boat? These people^ weren't around until way later when NEMESIS began changing members and Resh became a mainstay. Moreover, most of these celebs also had clans of their own at the time yet their threads were empty save for their own member's chattering. Cami has a magnetic personality because she's a woman..
2
What I am proposing is just an update to the rules. If we put a sign discouraging or even punishing jumpers, maybe it will stop all these rampant noobs from running amok. I dunno...
3
It's no problem for someone like you, who understands what animating is all about, to moderate the content coming into your clan threads. But try telling every noob out there with a clan of their own who they made on a whim that this moderation should exist. I'm not asking that Clans be complete shutouts, just that in the past clans have been more productive and they didn't need everyone and their uncle coming in to say hi. That is both events are mutually exclusive and only biased by your personal experiences. It is why I asked dipi and not you.

1
lol.., is that the way you feel about her, lol, because i dont think so, (lets be honest)... the only thing magnetic about her is that she is the leader of the most famous clan on SP (there i said it) although i feel a bit weird about an inexperience girl animator getting to render authority over a bunch of cool and famous experience animators(and is in no way near their level), she deserves it because she managed to keep her clan from dieing for a long while, when everyone was busy and deleting clans for various reasons, still Nemesis is relevant, because unlike any other place in the forum, that is the one place every famous dude goes and post, and a easy way to find them, and even if the aren't posting anything relevant, com'on we all know they hardly ever post, so they shouldn't be and issue
3
the past clans have been productive? how....aren't they all in the trash, nemesis didn't start anything until the re like into 900 pages, only clan i'd say was productive is zeta, and the amount of ppl that where calling them out to see more stuff from them is what had them going, (*says nhazul in our previous pm's*)
so yes, i would prefer my uncle to come in and say hi every now and then, and let me now how much he appreciates the work, b4 i think no one cares, lose interest and give up, *for example* if guz were to come here and say, i haven't seen anything from you guys in a while,,,wait not even guz, you, if you were to say that, we would rushed our anim produce just because we know someone is appreciating ur work, so agian, stoping ppl from posting on other clans wouldn't help the productivity rate, its up to the ppl
2
u donno?... hmmm...i think you know well, but if you are saying that noobs shouldn't be allowed to make clan, then that would mean only experience animators would be allowed, and then the noobs would never get any experience, and that would even strip SP of more fun, however i dont have the power or dictatorship to put that as a rule, although it wouldn't effect me now, it would have back in the day, and i'd feel terrible if it were to go into effect, and it would have also effected this clan seeing that i was first created in a completely noob state, which means it would have never existed, ...:[ *(shit, its so hard to think about these things)*
i can understand why you would want to end all the ranting because of how noobs create clans, spam all over it, and then delete them after they get bored, but not only noobs do it, so called pros also do it, look @ Palaxy, look @ what happn to the KKK and Tilt, but everyone isn't like that and out of one of those noobs clans will emerge the next inspiring new cool set of animators, so its still hard to put the rules into effect with out conjuring some sort of problems/down falls,


~my opinion
to insure the spam limit of clans is reduce, without hurting potentially equip animators in the future, they would have to be like a court of law, with 3 elders, (*the clan makers past*), so that ppl who want to make clans can go to them and show them and example of what it would be like, and they would rule out if it would turn into a disaster thread full of trolling and and jokes, or actual productiveness and learning, then they would give the ok, they can even tell the ppl to join clans instead, that is honestly the only way i can see that system working
how ever i still think the rules have been updated and updated way to much already, i'd hope that we dont forget the fun and the simple things that once brought us here

Quote from Mark XD

the only thing magnetic about her is that she is the leader of the most famous clan on SP (there i said it) although i feel a bit weird about an

It sounds to me like you're the one looking at this with cami-colored glasses. Reputation does not precede Personality. You aren't attracted because she's the leader of a famous clan. You're attracted because the clan became famous by having a leader like her.

Quote from Mark XD

the past clans have been productive? how....aren't they all in the trash

Past clans = FA era. What are you on about?

Those very same trash clans you see now were only trash when they came here. Most of them anyway. Back then, most if not all clans were productive because they were self-contained. There were still clan-making noobs but they were often discouraged by any major clan or member for their inexperience and obvious attention-seeking habits. These days you can't even do that or nobody does that anymore to the point that the general belief is that anyone can just make a clan now regardless of how inexperienced or inhibited you are.

Quote from Mark XD

*for example* if guz were to come here and say, i haven't seen anything from you guys in a while,,,wait not even guz, you, if you were to say that, we would rushed our anim produce just because we know someone is appreciating ur work

Yeah. Right. First off, are you honestly telling me you guys are literally just doing it for the attention? That the sole output of your work is based on how many outsiders are sucking your dicks? Morale is a fine buffer for group dynamics but if that's all you want in a clan, then its unsustainable at best. People should come to you because of the things you've done, not because you exist to be visited.

Secondly, take note that this situation you're talking about has been happening for quite some time now as you say. And yet...what's happened? Nothing. Nobody but NEMESIS has actually done anything. I could dumpster dive and give you all the times anyone has ever posted to "check in" on their favorite clanmates and tell you that nothing was accomplished. In fact if anything it has often led to Clan Shutdowns because the leader is conditioned into a state where he needs to deliver and cannot or has not in a long time. More so, "checking in" is a form of necrobumping and minor spam.

Why don't you give me actual proofs of this miracle booster instead of giving a hypothetical example thinly disguised as wishful thinking.

Quote from Mark XD

u donno?... hmmm...i think you know well, but if you are saying that noobs shouldn't be allowed to make clan, then that would mean only experience animators would be allowed, and then the noobs would never get any experience, and that would even strip SP of more fun,

He's got it! Although that's not all I'm saying. I'm saying that only an experienced hand has any plans for longevity. Noobs can make their own clans if they want to, but if they seriously want to get better then they should attempt to sign up for a willing mentor. And noobs never getting experience? How bout joining a clan with an experienced leader? If a noob joins a noob clan then its merely synanimous to the blind leading the blind.

The fault you see, doesn't just lie in noobs. Clans should ultimately exist to help each other out so there should still be a form of mentorship where "tryouts" are just meant to gauge where a user stands instead of acting as a filter for who should get in. Some noobs even hold tryouts for the sake of holding tryouts like it's a mechanical function to have in a clan. Yes. Elite clans that exclude members can exist as well, but it's come to a point where nobody even knows that mentorship is even possible now.

Quote from Mark XD

however i dont have the power or dictatorship to put that as a rule, although it wouldn't effect me now, it would have back in the day, and i'd feel terrible if it were to go into effect, and it would have also effected this clan seeing that i was first created in a completely noob state, which means it would have never existed, ...:[ *(shit, its so hard to think about these things)*

Perhaps you feel terrible because you've never had a mentor who was able to be consistent and brilliant. Without that, there is barely a sense of loyalty. There is only the loyalty in the imaginary belief that your sticks and RHGs are bonding, but without a solid effort irl to glue all that together, clans often feel soulless.

Quote from Mark XD

i can understand why you would want to end all the ranting because of how noobs create clans, spam all over it, and then delete them after they get bored, but not only noobs do it, so called pros also do it, look @ Palaxy, look @ what happn to the KKK and Tilt, but everyone isn't like that and out of one of those noobs clans will emerge the next inspiring new cool set of animators, so its still hard to put the rules into effect with out conjuring some sort of problems/down falls,

I never said they were the exception. In fact I haven't addressed them at all because it is not really a part of the problem but a problem nontheless. Clans like Palaxy and Tilt were formed by men who have no desire to retain an empire. Ever had an awesome idea you just had to pull off then didn't plan for what happens next? It's the same here. They make a big splash and then we never see them again.

These clans are no different than the noobs because their common interests do not lie in helping each other, but in their deluded attempts at instant fame. Noobs think if they make a clan theyll be famous right away. Elites think if they make an awesome clan that doesn't need maintenance---because who in their right mind would question their skill---also suffer the same pitfalls and fall to inactivity and ennui because there was no road to success. They didn't pave anything unlike NEMESIS who is good and actually had a journey they can all keep under their belts.

Quote from Mark XD

the fun and the simple things that once brought us here

The same fun and simple things that brought you here were the same foundations that made clans last. Unfortunately, nobody bothered to pass this on and now everyone thinks clans are just instant-skyrockets to success.

Quote from Hewitt

It sounds to me like you're the one looking at this with cami-colored glasses. Reputation does not precede Personality. You aren't attracted because she's the leader of a famous clan. You're attracted because the clan became famous by having a leader like her

no no no, thats not what i said @ all. ur changing up everything negatively, i said i disagree about the

magnetic personality(which you think she has) where did 'attracted' come from, she's and sp girl dude, what are you on about, and what colored classes, only colored classes (to me) there were yun, resh and guz,, i told you i only used to visit there to see them, now they're gone so i dont, y r we even talking about this, there is no problem there, back to the matter at hand

Quote from Hewitt

Past clans = FA era.
Back then, most if not all clans were productive because they were self-contained.

productive how? because the only anims i see from any FA clans are from Hex, Solider, clan style and Zetabrand , And they (the FA clans that merge here) probably died bcuz of how different SP was to FA and the lack of appreciation and motivation there had their, ps, i dont we should compare SP to FA bcuz we all know SP, is NOT, like FA, so since its a change to Era, there would have to be a change of the way we see things, and it is

Quote from Hewitt

Yeah. Right. First off, are you honestly telling me you guys are literally just doing it for the attention? That the sole output of your work is based on how many outsiders are sucking your dicks?

what!, agian, no no no, i said apreciation not attention, i said ppl motivating you, not someone sucking your d**k, what is that all about

Quote from Hewitt

People should come to you because of the things you've done, not because you exist to be visited.

now we agree on something

Quote from Hewitt

Secondly, take note that this situation you're talking about has been happening for quite some time now as you say. And yet...what's happened? Nothing. Nobody but NEMESIS has actually done anything.

i see you keep bringing up Nemesis, but dude thats not true, they aren't the only ones who did collabs, and like i said they waited until they ran true like 900 pages then to decide to will produce some actually team work/anims, and if it wasn't for zeta making new clan anims i dont think they would have been inspired to do anything(its a probability) they would just have more pages

Quote from Hewitt

He's got it! Although that's not all I'm saying. I'm saying that only an experienced hand has any plans for longevity.

wrong/not exactly true, this clan was created under no experience and have much plans for longevity, tilt/blackout were created buy experience hands, who knew they were famous but inactive, and they leaders where inactive and gave up

Quote from Hewitt

Noobs can make their own clans if they want to, but if they seriously want to get better then they should attempt to sign up for a willing mentor.

hence an honorary member, it has work in some cases, a few i kno, but certain ppl miss use it now

Quote from Hewitt

1
And noobs never getting experience? How bout joining a clan with an experienced leader?
2
If a noob joins a noob clan then its merely synanimous to the blind leading the blind.

1
they cant, experiance leader have this thing nowadays where thay only accept famous or intermediate animators in their clan, even if the noob is committed pushes him self and create a good tryout, as long as the pro creates and 1 hit combo with a smiley face, he/she gets in(i disagree with this strongly) but thats they way it is.
2
so then they have no other choice but to join other noob clan, so yh, noobs clans are still needed, so they can progress together

Quote from Hewitt

Perhaps you feel terrible because you've never had a mentor. There is only the loyalty in the imaginary belief that your sticks and RHGs are bonding, but without a solid effort irl to glue all that together, clans often feel soulless.

i did, xteatlh and metal2. Perhaps you feel clans are soulless because you've never animated in one

Quote from Hewitt

I never said they were the exception. In fact I haven't addressed them at all because it is not really a part of the problem but a problem nontheless. Clans like Palaxy and Tilt were formed by men who have no desire to retain an empire.

ok well that partially settles it, i'll leave it there then

From this point on, this discussion is either over or you bring it here
Thanks

Quote from Drone

From this point on, this discussion is either over or you bring it here
Thanks

fgts liek u ruin dis comunity
u fgt


Which you can translate as:
It was fucking time, good job

Quote from Drone

From this point on, this discussion is either over or you bring it here
Thanks

Quote from Mark XD

ok well that partially settles it, i'll leave it there then

lol dipi, a black n white .l.. really makes u feel the messsage

Samy, before I forget again (don't remember if I already told you or not), me and Mark are gonna make a joint about our tasks
So, if you could register us as "DiPi/MarkXD-Task 2/4", it would be more specific