Stick Page Forums Archive

Proposal: Upgrades

Started by: Tecness2 | Replies: 55 | Views: 2,789

uberman

Posts: 565
Joined: Dec 2012
Rep: 10

View Profile
Feb 21, 2013 9:48 AM #891022
Quote from _Aiman_
I dont have Chaos, so my opinion may be invalid.

Order can get rage early game, about 1 min and 5 sec or so. The miners will be set to pray at start to gain 50 mana vey quickly. Then just rage. On Chaos side, they can just to train more cats or bombs. To make things worst, they are in the same queue. And, swords are stronger than cats. Youll need good micro to win 3 cats vs 3 swords.


yes, exactly. (Edit to add my 'yes exactly' is aimed at your points about order getting rage early, and to bombs and crawlers being in the same queue)

Your opinion is only invalid if you disagree with me :)
_Ai_
2

Posts: 11,256
Joined: Nov 2012
Rep: 10

View Profile
Feb 21, 2013 10:51 AM #891051
Quote from uberman
yes, exactly.
Your opinion is only invalid if you disagree with me :)


What! I disagree with you :P
uberman

Posts: 565
Joined: Dec 2012
Rep: 10

View Profile
Feb 21, 2013 11:03 AM #891062
Quote from Dakeras
but crawlers are not meant to engage Rage Swords. Their purpose, mostly early game, is gain control of center and maybe harass the miners. Engaging 15 pure crawlers vs swords or pretty much anything except other crawlers or pure archers is kinda crazy. I don't think you should make 15 of them without realizing the need to make bombers or the need to switch to air. Their job is not to win engagements, their job is to control the battlefield early on to give time to get your eco rolling and better units out.


On this we agree.

But thats why chaos struggles so much on short maps against sword rush, when there is no option to get other units (only crawlers or bombers). Even you who says the advantage is wth chaos agrees crawlers cant beat swords in a fight - so if he ignores your crawlers and attacks your miners, what do you suggest a chaos player does? (let me guess, you think chaos simply makes 5 bombers and kills the swords...thats another story)
Nobody here is seriously suggesting using 15 crawlers. Its mentioned by Tec as a comparison. Even fully buffed, 15 crawlers die to 10 swords with rage (i.e 10 swords are stronger than 15 crawlers) but lets compare costs; 15 swords with rage are cheaper than 15 fully buffed crawlers (due to expensive crawler buffs), they use 10 population compared to 15 population, and are faster to produce (10 build times rather than 15 build times). BUT YOU STILL SOMEHOW THINK THE ADVANTAGE IS WITH CHAOS?

Early game, on a short map, chaos has only crawlers and bombers - and they are in the same queue. Bombers are one-shot units, and it takes 5 to kill swords, which is 5x75 = 375 gold and 5 lots of build-time when you cant build any crawlers to defend against swords. Thats a long time to be with only 2 crawlers!
uberman

Posts: 565
Joined: Dec 2012
Rep: 10

View Profile
Feb 21, 2013 11:05 AM #891067
Quote from _Aiman_
What! I disagree with you :P


No, your too smart, you know never to disagree with me :)
KrayZStick
2

Posts: 1,309
Joined: Dec 2012
Rep: 10

View Profile
Feb 22, 2013 2:30 AM #891915
Macro over Micro in this, Swords will always be stronger, no matter how much micro you have with crawlers!
DragonFrost
2

Posts: 3,251
Joined: Oct 2012
Rep: 10

View Profile
Feb 22, 2013 3:30 AM #891947
Quote from KrayZStick
Macro over Micro in this, Swords will always be stronger, no matter how much micro you have with crawlers!


So true, that's why there are bombers :p
kingkickass2013

Posts: 1,839
Joined: Jan 2013
Rep: 10

View Profile
Feb 22, 2013 4:39 AM #891989
I have a couple problems here

the shadowrath

the shadowrath unit is a melee unit ONLY, the unit shouldnt have a ranged advantage, otherwise their true main foes (the albowtross and archidon mass) would stand no chance against the new ranged weapon, shadowrath would have to have its price increased completely in order for this to take effect. however im good with shadow mastery, it doesn't change much except now when you go shinobi the enemy doesn't notice it, but make it so the shadowrath dont say shinobi when this is upgraded, so the enemy doesn't hear you as well.

The meric
worst combat unit in the game, and it must stay that way. the magical portable healer shouldn't be casting spells, that's the magikills job. So I say don't freaking take somebodies job god damnit, its not nice.

the crawler
these speedy little fucks need those upgrades reduced otherwise the help you o so need aint gonna come. they are obsolete when it comes to upgrades, so reduce em.

the archidon
I absolutely love the archidon, they are considered my second best unit. but teleportation is going a bit to far, WE HAVEN'T EVEN MADE THAT TYPE OF TECHNOLOGY YET, and archidons aren't magical nor are they sneaky enough to move like that, keep the flame arrows, but lose the teleportation (why teleport when you can use those legs of yours).

the medusa
this unit already can kill a unit instantly, why give it an ability so it can just kill other units instantly faster. two blocks of freaking health lost on the single unit it hits, it will be finished with the spearton in only 3-4 shots, not including the venom flux sent out to the other enemies, reduce the damage done with this upgrade or make it toggled and cost 50-75 mana

i had my own upgrade ideas but i think they are a bit OP

THE MARROWKAI

small minions, give the marrowkai the ability to spawn small little demons that have a 50-50 chance to be either holding a bow or a sword, this costs no mana or population to use, but it has an insanely long recharge time (80-90 perhaps, so players dont get OP with this), these units do less damage than a swordwrath and die instantly from a single miner attack, but they are free of charge, almost as fast as a shadowrath (a shadowrath can catch up to one of these but no other unit can), controllable, you start with this upgrade, and a farm of these units can be started but its not recommended

THE MEDUSA

darkness, medusa shoots a ball of darkness at a single enemy that does as much damage as an archidons arrow, costs no mana to use and medusa starts with this. has a recharge time of 3 seconds

THE JUGGERKNIGHT

anger mismanagement, the Juggerknights anger grows more and more every day, every kill he makes stacks up little by little (can stack damage up 10 times, only one juggerknight can take the stack, so if 2 juggerknights are attacking a single swordwrath whoever got the last hit gets the stack), each kill gives the Juggerknights damage an extra .1 damage all the way to 1 full extra damage, this upgrade costs 150 gold and 150 mana with a time of 50, HOWEVER when its toggled the juggerknights health does not regenerate over time even when garrisoned, when toggled off the whole damage stacked disappears and he can start regenerating again

anger mismanagement 2, the Juggerknight can now stack the damage up 20 times, allowing him to get 2 full extra damage, however once you pass the tenth stack, you will start slowly losing health as if your regeneration was going backwards even when garrisoned, when turned off you lose the damage stacked and begin regenerating again, this costs 400 gold and 150 mana (this gives the juggerknight 2 toggled abilities, so you can choose whether you get to continue going with the damage stack)

THE SPEARTON

honor, the Spearton when dies now throws the spear as a last attack, instantly killing ONE of the weak foes, he will always target the strongest of the weakest (heres a list of the order he will target in: albowtross, wingadon, meric, archidon, swordwrath, miner from either side, crawler, and bomber. he targets from the most expensive to the least expensive, most expensive always is targeted first unless blocked by something like a giant), if their is no weak unit to instantly kill on the battle field, he will just randomly target one of the truly strong units, of course not instantly killing them but damaging them a little. costs 250 gold and 50 mana to research with a research time of 60

shield stab, the spearton takes out the spear while in shield wall and can now stab units as its holding the wall, this does the a bit less damage than its regular attack but does not stun, it costs no mana to use and has a recharge time of 7, this ability costs 300 gold and 100 mana to buy with a research time of 20

shield bash 2, the speartons bash now hits 2 enemies, it costs 100 gold and 100 gold with a research time of 30

THE ALBOWTROSS

better flight, the albowtross is a bit faster, costs 200 gold and 50 mana

THE MAGIKILL

magical range, increases the spell range of all spells, some spells can even be fired off screen, this costs 250 gold and 600 mana with a research time of 35

magical shield, spawns a small shield around the magikill that phases a single attack once, after that single use the magikill is vulnerable and can be harmed, this ability comes with the magikill and is a single use ability (you start with it, but it cant be casted by the magikill)

THE MINER FOR BOTH SIDES

double tap, the gold is now doubled to 150 and the mana gained is doubled to 14 per person, this costs 600 gold and 500 mana. the gold increased does not increase the amount of time it takes to mine a full bag of gold but it does increase the amount of gold taken from an ore
Tecness2

Posts: 1,340
Joined: Jul 2009
Rep: 10

View Profile
Feb 22, 2013 5:16 AM #892011
Quote from kingkickass2013
I have a couple problems here

the shadowrath

the shadowrath unit is a melee unit ONLY, the unit shouldnt have a ranged advantage, otherwise their true main foes (the albowtross and archidon mass) would stand no chance against the new ranged weapon, shadowrath would have to have its price increased completely in order for this to take effect. however im good with shadow mastery, it doesn't change much except now when you go shinobi the enemy doesn't notice it, but make it so the shadowrath dont say shinobi when this is upgraded, so the enemy doesn't hear you as well.

The meric
worst combat unit in the game, and it must stay that way. the magical portable healer shouldn't be casting spells, that's the magikills job. So I say don't freaking take somebodies job god damnit, its not nice.

the crawler
these speedy little fucks need those upgrades reduced otherwise the help you o so need aint gonna come. they are obsolete when it comes to upgrades, so reduce em.

the archidon
I absolutely love the archidon, they are considered my second best unit. but teleportation is going a bit to far, WE HAVEN'T EVEN MADE THAT TYPE OF TECHNOLOGY YET, and archidons aren't magical nor are they sneaky enough to move like that, keep the flame arrows, but lose the teleportation (why teleport when you can use those legs of yours).

the medusa
this unit already can kill a unit instantly, why give it an ability so it can just kill other units instantly faster. two blocks of freaking health lost on the single unit it hits, it will be finished with the spearton in only 3-4 shots, not including the venom flux sent out to the other enemies, reduce the damage done with this upgrade or make it toggled and cost 50-75 mana

1: Why does it have to be a melee only unit? It has a 5 second cooldown, and does the same damage as a normal arrow. An albowtross (which is the same population) would easily kill it in this time.

2: Clearly, you've never played the campaign The mission where the enemy opens with 2-3 Merics is massively overpowered since they do the same damage as a swordwrath (or a crawler, not sure) but also heal themselves/eachother. This idea was from games like World of Warcraft/ Warcraft 3, where the healer has a small ability that can be used to damage enemies. It's tried and true. All healers, in every game that is declared as balanced, has another major point that makes it useful.

3: Crawlers are very weak, their entire purpose is speed. This makes them move even faster, to be better at their job. This will also reduce the effectiveness against giant massers.

4: The Archidon is like the stalker from StarCraft 2. I wanted to give it a teleport because it would add more micro to the game. Micro intensive games are very good, as well as fun.

5: It can currently kill any unit, except a giant, instantly and that has a 27 second cooldown. This ability is a close range, single enemy weapon. It does very little damage and can only kill a single swordwrath. It also has a larger cooldown that it takes to spawn a swordwrath/crawler. After the Medusa uses her stone ability, she's useless for the next 30(almost) seconds unless the enemy decides he wants to swarm her.
kingkickass2013

Posts: 1,839
Joined: Jan 2013
Rep: 10

View Profile
Feb 22, 2013 6:30 AM #892043
I was gonna say something about your point to the archidon, but then i took extra thought to what i was gonna say and then completely forgot what i was gonna say

btw what of my upgrades, what do you think about them, overpowered underpowered balanced what do you think
stickman311

Posts: 1,081
Joined: Dec 2012
Rep: 10

View Profile
Feb 22, 2013 9:12 AM #892126
Quote from Tecness2
1: Why does it have to be a melee only unit? It has a 5 second cooldown, and does the same damage as a normal arrow. An albowtross (which is the same population) would easily kill it in this time.

2: Clearly, you've never played the campaign The mission where the enemy opens with 2-3 Merics is massively overpowered since they do the same damage as a swordwrath (or a crawler, not sure) but also heal themselves/eachother. This idea was from games like World of Warcraft/ Warcraft 3, where the healer has a small ability that can be used to damage enemies. It's tried and true. All healers, in every game that is declared as balanced, has another major point that makes it useful.

3: Crawlers are very weak, their entire purpose is speed. This makes them move even faster, to be better at their job. This will also reduce the effectiveness against giant massers.

4: The Archidon is like the stalker from StarCraft 2. I wanted to give it a teleport because it would add more micro to the game. Micro intensive games are very good, as well as fun.

5: It can currently kill any unit, except a giant, instantly and that has a 27 second cooldown. This ability is a close range, single enemy weapon. It does very little damage and can only kill a single swordwrath. It also has a larger cooldown that it takes to spawn a swordwrath/crawler. After the Medusa uses her stone ability, she's useless for the next 30(almost) seconds unless the enemy decides he wants to swarm her.

I really can't believe you play every game with the word war in it.Anyways, i really don't think crawlers are for speed, 2 crawlers can kill a sword, and if you talk bout archidons i'll give you 4 bombers.
_Ai_
2

Posts: 11,256
Joined: Nov 2012
Rep: 10

View Profile
Feb 22, 2013 9:21 AM #892133
Quote from stickman311
I really can't believe you play every game with the word war in it.Anyways, i really don't think crawlers are for speed, 2 crawlers can kill a sword, and if you talk bout archidons i'll give you 4 bombers.


Then, what is the use of the crawlers if it isnt speed?
stickman311

Posts: 1,081
Joined: Dec 2012
Rep: 10

View Profile
Feb 22, 2013 4:07 PM #892421
its cheap, so use it for rush
kingkickass2013

Posts: 1,839
Joined: Jan 2013
Rep: 10

View Profile
Feb 22, 2013 8:29 PM #892620
you know i wonder who would win, 80 swordwrath with rage or 80 crawlers with pack mentality and predatory edge
Tecness2

Posts: 1,340
Joined: Jul 2009
Rep: 10

View Profile
Feb 22, 2013 8:38 PM #892628
Quote from kingkickass2013
you know i wonder who would win, 80 swordwrath with rage or 80 crawlers with pack mentality and predatory edge

Swords.

Without rage, I believe crawlers might win.
Imada
2

Posts: 1,518
Joined: Aug 2012
Rep: 10

View Profile
Feb 22, 2013 8:42 PM #892632
Yup, so do I
Website Version: 1.0.4
© 2025 Max Games. All rights reserved.