Ello, peepol. I'm not sure if you guys still remember the original, "Certain Unit Problems" thread... But, anyway, I'm making another lol.

The original thread said:
1. Albowtross and Eclipsors should be created ON THE GROUND and FIGHT ON THE GROUND as a powerful melee unit, and make them have an ability that lets them fly.
2. Speartons should cost more and Shadowrath should cost less. Sure, Shadowrath are used as individual assassination units, but Albowtross are not, and are meant as support units--but they still cost more.
3. Juggerknights should cost slightly more than Speartons, since they're slightly stronger.
4. Non-upgraded Giants should have more health and fully-upgraded Giants should have less health.

So here's another thread lol.

But, anyway, here's the original thread if you want a more detailed version of what it originally said:
http://forums.stickpage.com/showthread.php?47498-Certain-Unit-Problems

Archidons
What I find sad about Archidons is that they're a tribal nation, but they don't act at all tribal and seem more... empiric. Along with that, Archidons are slow. They should be able to retreat on their own if their allies die. Kiting is also a good Archidon strategy, but it'd be more effective if the Archidons were faster.

So my suggestion? Give Archidons an ability that lets them run fast and attack fast--basically an Archidonis version of Rage. No, Archidons will not scream, "GREYAAAAARGH" when they use the ability or glow red. They should just have a different run animation that obviously looks like it's running fast. Attack animations would remain the same, but would be slightly faster.

Why do this? It gives Archidons a more... tribal feel. It also gives them a chance to retreat when they have to, instead of being completely slaughtered when they try to run because they're slow.

Merics
One thing that we all find annoying about Merics is how they try and approach the battlefield so they can dish out some punches.
It's annoying.
We don't want the Merics to be fighting. We want them to heal their allies when they get injured. But it seems we can't stop them. We still need Merics to have an attack, right? No doubt about that. We need them to be able to defend themselves, or else the Magikill level in the Campaign would be seriously easy. So my suggestion? Let them keep their attack, but make it ranged. This would make Merics stop trying to go near the battlefield. They can dish out the punches they so badly want to dish, and they heal allies, too--all from a safe, ranged distance.

Number of Units - Order, Chaos, and the Elementals
If we try and experiment all of the possible merges that we can do for the Elementals, it would give us a total of 10 units--I'm not too sure if they have Miners. This isn't good for balance--why should the Elementals have one more unit than Order and Chaos? Well, they shouldn't. My suggestion is not to make the Elementals have only nine units, but to give Order and Chaos another unit. Why should we do this? We all know some people are having trouble with using Chaos early-game, because Crawlers aren't good early-game units. What units can we propose?

Chaos needs a new basic unit--one that can act as good as a starting army as the Swordwrath. My suggestion is make another Skeletal race. Why? It's Chaos! Where's the Skeletal Race when you need one? How would this fit? Well, the Swordwrath evolved to the Shadowrath, the Archidons evolved to the Albowtross, and the Magikill created Merics. It's only natural to say that there are actually two kinds of Skeletal dudes: The magician guys whatev, and the ones that aren't whatev. The ones that aren't, whatev, would act like Swordwrath, but be slightly weaker. They would also hold a sword and a shield, just because it looks cool. I can't think of an ability for them, though.

What about Order? Well, I'd like to bring something back: The Dashinites. You guys still remember them? They were taken out of the game, if you'd check the first few blog posts of stickwar.com, but I don't really know why. They hold a simple spear, and that's it. No helmet, no shield, no nothing. Just a spear. I'm not entirely sure if they should be stronger than Swordwrath or weaker, but IMO, they should be slightly weaker, and much faster. Keyword derived--"Dashinites", right? I also can't think of a good ability for them, but anywho.

Marrowkai
The Marrowkai are masters of summoning, right? Well, they don't seem like it, since all they can summon are a few hands with no flesh. I can just imagine Juggerknights "summoning" hands without flesh using the bones of the ton of Swordwrath they've killed.

Problem with the Marrowkai is they're... seriously powerful. Reaper is better than Petrification, in my opinion--it's also cheaper. And, of course, Hell Fists is obviously better than Venom Flux. What else? Marrowkai are cheaper than Medusa. Medusa's a great one-on-one fighter, but a horrible support unit and spellcaster--hah, she doesn't even have her own melee attack, unlike the Marrowkai, which has an atleast decent melee.

I say, make Marrowkai more expensive--the same price of the Magikill, if necessary. Also give them longer cooldown times for spells.

Now, if this is considered, then the Marrowkai would need another ability. Now, what's missing in Chaos? A Necromancer. The Marrowkai already act like this, but they still can't summon a direct unit. In my opinion, Marrowkai should be able to summon a Skeletal Warrior--whatever name you want to give him--for a few good seconds. This would complete Chaos, atleast through my eyes.

So, if you don't want to read everything (I don't blame you for it), here's a summary of everything in this post:

1. Archidons should have an ability that lets them run faster, and attack faster, and take a new running animation when using the ability. This gives them a more tribal feel, and lets the Archidons escape properly if their allies are dead. It also improves kiting.

2. Merics should not have a melee attack, but instead, a ranged attack, to stop them from trying to go near the battlefield. This would help them hit enemies and heal allies, all from a safe distance.

3. Order and Chaos should have one new unit to even out each empire, making sure it each has ten units. Chaos's unit should have to be able to help really well early-game.

4. Marrowkai should be more expensive, and their abilities should have long cooldown. To even it out and complete the Marrowkai, it should be able to summon a unit--the new Chaos unit that would help early game--for a few seconds.

So, opinions, opinions! Let's see what you guys have to say. What do you think? What do you agree with? What do you disagree with? Let us know!

1. Archidons: I agree. They are too easily overwhelmed by raging swordwrath early game.
2. Merics: I think they already fixed this in the new update. "Spellcasters do not move to the front lines", I believe it was.
3. New unit: Hrmmm. Might be interesting. Personally, I think the Magikill should have minion-summoning abilities, but that's just me.
4. Marrowkai: Agreed. Marrowkai easily take out their Order counterparts.

As for my own ideas:

Archidons need a passive fire arrow ability, like albowtross. I feel like they are underused, and without a damage booster, their job as anti-air units is a little harder to carry out. Of course, your "archer rage" suggestion also works.

Ninjas should be able to hit cloaked enemy ninjas. First of all, it makes sense. If you've trained in the art of cloaking, you'd know how it works. Second of all, it's pretty much the only thing that can feasibly stop an assassination without having like 3 magikill casting blast and electric wall over and over and hoping you don't miss.

Giant health on level 2 upgrade needs to go down. A lot.

Miners. Miners... They piss me off. When they exit the castle, they should default to mining. I still don't understand why they don't. Less miner babysitting = more army micro = awesomeness. The last thing I need to see after an intense, finger-twitching sword + archer micro battle is 3 of my miners back at base standing there like idiots.

Don't agree with archidons upgrade
if you really hate raging swordwraths pwn your archers
try to build a wall to protect your archer, not too expensive, 300G can do
one archer with 1 wall can kill 3 raging swordwraths
keep your miner behind the wall, when the odd one is nearly destroyed, build another one behind
remember to balance the number of wall and the number of archers you have
archers can actually CONTROL the starting of the game


I think archers are not underpowered, with pro kiting skills, they pwn swordwraths

Totally agree with archidons. Not sure about the others.

As Azxc says, archers are not weak and slow.
They can kite and hide behind a wall. they are already faster than most units.
If they are faster than a raging unit, and are a ranged unit, they would be seriously overpowered. Nobody can catch it, it can hit anything, and quite cheap.

Quote from uberman

As Azxc says, archers are not weak and slow.
They can kite and hide behind a wall. they are already faster than most units.
If they are faster than a raging unit, and are a ranged unit, they would be seriously overpowered. Nobody can catch it, it can hit anything, and quite cheap.

Well, that's what a cooldown's for lol.

I don't find Archidons underpowered--I just want to give them a chance to be able to retreat when they have to. That's what the idea is for. An Archidon should be able to escape enemies that are chasing him. Sadly, he's only as fast as Swordwrath, and there are a ton of units that are faster than them.

@Axzc

That wasn't exactly the point I was saying. The point of the ability is to let Archidons be able to properly escape if they failed an offensive, or if they're trying to rush the enemy. I don't see it as a defensive ability. But thanks, anyway!

@jli

About the Archidons, wouldn't it sorta... overshadow the Fire Arrow ability?

Ninjas hitting cloaked ninjas... seems pretty cool. The only downside I see is that your ninjas will obviously lose and get poisoned. Then again, it would give the rest of your army a chance to strike back, and so long as you've got Merics with Cure, you're set.

Agree with Giant health.

Agree with Miners. I'd really like it fixed--I wish there was a setting where we could tell every new Miner to either pray or mine.

archidon should be slightly more powerful then they're now...and a bit faster, simply beecause i don't like eclip/albow rush
agree on giant
uhm...medusa petrify need even longer cool down, reaper really need a longer cool down and less range because 3 medusas, 3 skeletal mage and a few giants can take out an entire army
sword should have a bit more speed and damage, ....
new units,...... maybe not...crawler with good micro can be deadly in early game, while sword need lots time to get rage and then need to be used in the precise freaking moment which many people mess up.
jugger knight does need to be a bit ore exepensive compare to the spearton
mage need a bit more speed, now a medusa can run a lap around him before he either finish casting or make a 4 foot trip, and he shouldn't be petrify
ninja is powerful and hard to hit, don't need to make even more hard to hit target but they do need to be able to sorta 1 hit with shinobi II on med and marro
albowtross should get a assault rifle instead of crossbow so they can shoot anthing down in seconds...joke

well all ideas are not too good and the baddest is the albowtross and dashinites is good very good!

I have used archidons for a very long time (this was before the great lag wave), and from what I know about them is this, THEY ARE NOT UNDERPOWERED.

They are extremely cheap and with a meat shield to block them (swordwrath are the best meat shields) they are unstoppable.

who needs walls when you have a portable wall known as a spearton or a swordwrath.

Fire arrows can kill a lot of units, remember the archidons strength lies in numbers not individuals.

Hmm. I've never used fire arrows. How much of a damage boost do they provide? And what's their cooldown?

I think its 12-15 seconds, the damage I haven't really tested yet, it does increase enough for you to notice the increase and its range increase is very noticeable.

Hmm, ok. So you're saying that I could potentially hit fleeing units with it? Also, does the mana cost ever set you behind in production?

Never, 5 mana taken away

10X5 equals 50 mana, thats a good deal for a range increase and a damage increase, kiting is always excellent with this upgrade because walls lose health quicker and if their is a unit nearby the wall at said time the fire arrows would just pass right through the wall and hit this unit.

Their is one problem that I noticed with fire arrows, when fighting against a unit further away the archidon instead of firing straight, they fire in the air and it rains down upon the enemy unit, this is annoying because your enemy can see your archidon firing the arrow in the air and just move back a couple steps, wasting your mana and a perfectly good fire arrow.

Hm, well then. I have to try using these fire arrows in future games.

The reason for the waste of fire arrows is that the archidons don't run to get into range like they normally do, they just fire their fire arrow. So, if an archer is told to use a fire arrow and there's nothing in its extended range, it'll just fire it as far as it can and hope it hits something.