Yo guys, I was just thinking back to when we were all so overwhelmed and excited (not necessarily in a good or bad way) back on Fluidanims. It was quite a hectic time last year from early Feb to mid May; also with stone trying to explain why it was a good move, making people more comfortable with it, answering a lot of questions etc. As I think back, most of FA's members at the time were supporting stone and his decision with this whole thing. And now here we are one year later. So I'm asking the whole community: regardless of you liking the merge or not (I'll get to that later), do you think it did a good job with expanding the community and making stick figure animation stronger as a whole? Do you think there were more things at the time that could have been done in order to make the present even better? And now with the subjectivity; do you like the way everything in general has gone from the past year? Are you happy with the state of things here now? Do you wish in some way, shape or form that the classic FA was back with everything it had before?

Go ahead and explain what you guys think! I think it's pretty important to see what people think about this matter since it's the only reason we're here (I presume).

stone, if you have the time, please read this! Or zip through it even, I think you'd care about what I have to say at least that much, seeing as you've built a hugely successful website nearly all based off of the community aspect in the past.

Personally I think it did an...okay job at making everything go smoothly while keeping some of the older and signature features of Fluidanims, like RHGs and Clans for instance (which of course was a must since it was a merger, but just sayin'). I believe stone did everything he could to the best of his abilities to make everything transact a lot more nicely and it worked quite well. However, I do not believe that it made the community stronger or made stick animation a more concrete style of art in any way. It did bring about lots of new animators and animations, but looking back I wouldn't say they were totally up to par with how FA's community and most importantly it's former spirit accomplished things. I can't say much because I don't know the exacts of SP's status quo but I'm pretty sure it brings in a lot more views now. But in one way or another, I think FA would have managed to catch up with SP's traffic during the course of the next 4 years (speaking from early 2012) or even earlier because it was earning it's true place on the Internet and was managing to climb through the ranks with it's former pro animators and it's warm and caring community, (not saying SP ain't got no comm like that but again, just sayin'). FA also had such a lively and thriving animation community! Oh man, there wasn't a day that went by when there wasn't someone pro doing something big. The amount of new anims, collabs and competitions were amazing and the best part was that everyone who joined actually finished their parts and also did them to the best of their ability (for the most part).

I just wish SP had more stuff going on, but I guess stone's got some big stuff planned for the upcoming Summer break? Hope so. (RHG TOURNEY BRO). I can't help but feel that the only thing that happens here is lots of talking in the General Section and more new RHGs and Clans popping up. I'm probably wrong since I don't check up too often on the other sections but oh weeeeeell. Another thing that FA had that SP desperately needs is a User Submittable portal. Yes I know there's already a half-assed one, but I mean like the on FA's Nexus. Oh man I miss that thing, it was literally YouTube for stick anims. And there were a LOT of quality animations being submitted everyday, I felt kinda sad to see them all vanish when the portal was coded to redirect us here. Some of the classics are here so it's not too bad I guess. The thing that made the forums go round and round was the FA currency system. Yall remember oz? Aw, good times. It was also an essential part of FA because it was giving the community opportunities to do so much more than just making pictures and weapons for RHGs and so on. It was used a great deal with competitions and collabs. It was (I would say) one of the best things to ever happen to FA, it also fueled almost all animators to work to their greatest potential when participating in events and such rather than dream about getting like 50 bucks by making a sponsored anim just for getting the dough. This way there were more options in which the majority of users could utilize friendly competition to get more excitement going in the collabs or whatever they were involved in. Another honorable mention would be FA Radio. Although FA Radio's concept was short-lived, it was a great way of informing the community about all the events and updates going on around the website. It catered to all members, than those who could go onto Livestream every day to see what's up.

I really think stone should consider most, if not all, of the things I mentioned (like the portal which would take a really large amount of time. I think we can survive a lil more without a fancy portal)- I mean things like a currency system, way more competitions and collabs, and a daily (or at least weekly) updated podcast system where everyone from all timezones can listen in on things rather than having to struggle with tuning in to the Livestream at inconvenient times. He doesn't even need to get on the everything right now and start working on things necessarily but it would sure as hell give SP and it's community a long needed huge ass boost, even if not completely make it a better place. Think about it!

Anyway again as it says at the top part of this post: "Go ahead and explain what you guys think! I think it's pretty important to see what people think about this matter since it's the only reason we're here (I presume)."

EDIT:

as far as i'm concerned, the merge was a stab in the back followed by a hostile takeover. there was no attempt to convince us that it was a good idea before it happened... let alone existing members even being asked what they thought about the idea. it was just announced and that was that.

don't get me wrong, i get that this place was getting old and wasn't really about animation any more. as far as the website goes, the merge was probably a great idea. i'm sure myself and the other existing members would have conceded quite quickly that it was the right decision for the website and been happy with the decision... if we had been asked what we thought about the idea. Instead, it was made as clear as a slap in the face that we and our opinions did not matter in the slightest, and that our past contributions to the forums meant nothing to the forum leaders.

i just feel (and i doubt i'm the only one that feels this way) that it was a bit of a dick move for the admins to just come in and tell all the tight-knit, long-term, loyal members:
"hey guys, we're merging with a website that is full of exactly the type of kids on the internet you have grown up from being yourself and personally developed an immense distaste for as an abhorrent reminder of your past."

the response we got when we made it clear that weren't happy about the sudden decision was something along the lines of:
"if you don't like it, you can just fuck off!"

i personally still hold some resentment for that, but i'll get over it.

There's a couple things I miss.

Oz system
Portal
Store
Vet members
It was more order there
Admins/The Crew were a bit more active and community friendly.
Original RHG and RHG clan System
The Scoop

I mean I guess SP isn't as bad as we thought and I have kinda gotten used to here. But I do wish they stop slackin off and atleast give us the oz. sytem. I mean seriously.

Most of what you guys have mentioned as missing is either mid development or was something that we tried but was made impossible with vBulletin due to our large size of database.

Portal
- Revised and beefed up portal WELL underway. I made a post earlier about what I requested we have in place. This included a lot of the features from our old FA portal as well as some even more renovated stuff.

Oz / Points
- We actually tried for roughly 2 weeks with various different mods and upgrades. The issue didn't entirely lie in the fact that some of the mods were bugged or didn't install correctly, but more-so of our MASSIVE database which would take literally days just to see if the mod would install. Sometimes the shear size of our database and member count has been the downfall of certain forum based additions.

Store
http://www.cafepress.com/stickpage
(been up for awhile, bottom of front page)

Vet members have their own group?

Original RHG / Clan system? It doesn't get more original than what we have as it is directly taken from the original source.

'the response we got when we made it clear that weren't happy about the sudden decision was something along the lines of:
"if you don't like it, you can just fuck off!"'

Now the above quote is a bit ridiculous. If truly did care and were directly involved you know I spent months discussing and working within what you guys already had with the ability to just cut throat kill off everything and start over. I worked directly with many of the vets in letting them know whats up and being respectful of what they had to say and what they had in mind.


SP Scoop
- People didn't show any interest, the team couldn't coordinate together effectively to provide content on a regular basis for all.

As we wrap up BSE, I planned on our next stickpage event! I'm thinking possibly.. DDC 3 :P / RHG Tournament :D

Thank you for your thoughts and input!

Alright. I'm glad you care Stone. We all know that you do, but what about the rest of the Admins?

And about The Scoop. I will make my own version just wait and see.

Edit: I don't count Jeff as Admin.

Quote from Scarecrow

Instead, it was made as clear as a slap in the face that we and our opinions did not matter in the slightest, and that our past contributions to the forums meant nothing to the forum leaders.

Jeff did a pretty decent job at making sure people's opinions were taken into consideration, I'm not sure why you think otherwise. If you responded to what was going on with hostility and disrespect then you probably got it in return, but as far as admins go Jeff and Stone have gone above and beyond anything zulu has ever done for us.

I remember talking to zulu on MSN when the NTF was being formed, and he literally told me he doesn't give a shit what the community thinks, says or does. He called SP a dictatorship, he was in charge, and people who were insubordinate (or just openly disagreed with him) could be banned for all he cared. I saved the chat log because it was so fucking extreme, but it was on my old computer so it's probably lost by now. Either way, he's said similar things openly on the forums in the past.

There were plenty of problems with the merge, but the people in charge have their own side of the story, and people like Jeff were screwed over WAY more than you or anyone else around here. Putting all of the blame solely on them is completely unfair. They're doing a good job.

I think that those are ALL good ideas, especially oz, but that sucks that you can't implant it. ;( Maybe delete all old accounts or something?

Quote from stone

'the response we got when we made it clear that weren't happy about the sudden decision was something along the lines of:
"if you don't like it, you can just fuck off!"'

Now the above quote is a bit ridiculous. If truly did care and were directly involved you know I spent months discussing and working within what you guys already had with the ability to just cut throat kill off everything and start over. I worked directly with many of the vets in letting them know whats up and being respectful of what they had to say and what they had in mind.

i'm using hyperboles obviously. i'm more angry at CJ, ZuLu, etc than anybody else.

my point is that we were never given an option to say "hey, I think this kind of sucks. convince me that it's a good idea". it was just "here's what's happening (no you don't have a say in the matter despite being here and contributing for years)", followed by outrage, and then people from the other forum coming and telling us "well here's why it's a good idea". everyone eventually conceded that yes, this was the best thing for the forums... but the way it was done left plenty of resentment and upset.

in the end, existing member had to choose between
- "this fucking sucks and there's nothing I can do about it. I'm out" and
- "i guess i'll stick around and hopefully this decision the admins made won't turn everything to shit and hopefully not everyone i know and like will leave"

i think that if the merge were introduced more smoothly, convincing members before making the decision rather than after, it would have been more like a choice between:
- "I disagree with this idea so therefore I am going to leave" and
- "I have been convinced that this is a good idea and will stick around to see how it goes, and will probably try to convince other existing members to do the same"

it was painful to watch most of the people i appreciated on this forum up and leave in outrage, just because our admins were fucking phantoms who didn't show their faces or interact with the forums in any way for anything but announcements.

Quote from Exilement

Jeff did a pretty decent job at making sure people's opinions were taken into consideration, I'm not sure why you think otherwise. If you responded to what was going on with hostility and disrespect then you probably got it in return, but as far as admins go Jeff and Stone have gone above and beyond anything zulu has ever done for us.

I remember talking to zulu on MSN when the NTF was being formed, and he literally told me he doesn't give a shit what the community thinks, says or does. He called SP a dictatorship, he was in charge, and people who were insubordinate (or just openly disagreed with him) could be banned for all he cared. I saved the chat log because it was so fucking extreme, but it was on my old computer so it's probably lost by now. Either way, he's said similar things openly on the forums in the past.

There were plenty of problems with the merge, but the people in charge have their own side of the story, and people like Jeff were screwed over WAY more than you or anyone else around here. Putting all of the blame solely on them is completely unfair. They're doing a good job.

yeah, as above, i'm angry at the former admins (the ones who made the decision for the merge) more than anybody else. sorry if it sounded otherwise. i have no beef with jeff or stone, and i appreciate that it was extremely unfair for them to have to deal with us at that time. as i mentioned before, the attitude on this end could have been significantly improved before the merge happened.

but your story fills me with rage! that's exactly what i'm talking about.

Quote from Exilement

Jeff did a pretty decent job at making sure people's opinions were taken into consideration, I'm not sure why you think otherwise. If you responded to what was going on with hostility and disrespect then you probably got it in return, but as far as admins go Jeff and Stone have gone above and beyond anything zulu has ever done for us.

I remember talking to zulu on MSN when the NTF was being formed, and he literally told me he doesn't give a shit what the community thinks, says or does. He called SP a dictatorship, he was in charge, and people who were insubordinate (or just openly disagreed with him) could be banned for all he cared. I saved the chat log because it was so fucking extreme, but it was on my old computer so it's probably lost by now. Either way, he's said similar things openly on the forums in the past.

There were plenty of problems with the merge, but the people in charge have their own side of the story, and people like Jeff were screwed over WAY more than you or anyone else around here. Putting all of the blame solely on them is completely unfair. They're doing a good job.

I know I haven't been here for very long... But from what I've seen everything runs smoothly. :)
Changes will be made later one, and whether or not they are good or bad, if someone were actually loyal to the community, then they will see it through and help as much as they can, right? All I have to say is that Exilement is right, it's running smoothly so let's not complain about it.

Quote from Scarecrow

it was painful to watch most of the people i appreciated on this forum up and leave in outrage, just because our admins were fucking phantoms who didn't show their faces or interact with the forums in any way for anything but announcements.

that's fair enough, but honestly I feel absolutely no empathy for anyone who outright abandoned this place because of the merge. we're two of the oldest members here, if we managed to adjust then anyone else could have as well, if they cared enough to try. I'm a mod again for fuck's sake. it's not all that bad.

The kind of people who abandoned this forum wouldn't agree with the merge no matter how it was brought up. But I see what you're saying. Zulu and CJ had zero interest in the forums, which obviously leads to frustration when big decisions like this are made without any regard for the people who make the forums worthwhile.

Quote from Exilement

that's fair enough, but honestly I feel absolutely no empathy for anyone who outright abandoned this place because of the merge. we're two of the oldest members here, if we managed to adjust then anyone else could have as well, if they cared enough to try. I'm a mod again for fuck's sake. it's not all that bad.

The kind of people who abandoned this forum wouldn't agree with the merge no matter how it was brought up. But I see what you're saying. Zulu and CJ had zero interest in the forums, which obviously leads to frustration when big decisions like this are made without any regard for the people who make the forums worthwhile.

they could have, but i'm not surprised they didn't. i think of myself as having significantly above-average willpower, and i will admit that for a while i was veeerrrry close to walking away also just because of how angry i was.

i'm just glad i resigned as moderator before the merge; if i hadn't, being demoted suddenly probably would have been the last straw.

Just to clarify, the business decision that was decided for the merge occurred above admin status. Well, unless you're counting CRAZY JAY as an admin rather than a CEO of the company / site. It wasn't a forum-based decision by, what was at the time, the forum mods/ admins.

Quote from stone

Just to clarify, the business decision that was decided for the merge occurred above admin status. Well, unless you're counting CRAZY JAY as an admin rather than a CEO of the company / site. It wasn't a forum-based decision by, what was at the time, the forum mods/ admins.

I joined FA shortly before the merge and I didn't get to really settle and know people, but after the merge things were quite smooth for me but I don't know if it's because I didn't really know FA well. At the end of the day, there is no point in any of the admins, mods or member getting angry because the merge was simply a business decision and to CJ it's just about the money and we are all members and on the same both be it the admin, mods or members.

Think of it like this, if you were in CJ's shoes wouldn't you do anything you had to to say your website. Think about it, he probably didn't want to in the beginning but later down the line he probably saw it as a good investment opportunity and a way to bring the stick back to stickpage.

I rest my case. *drops gavel*

Merge was a little shaky at first, however a year on it seems to have turned out pretty well. Two things I would mention:

1. Obviously many of the former members leaving wasn't great. But I have taken a liking to many of the people whom have come over from FA. Over the last half a year, many people started getting the jist of things (which generally happens after you've hung around for awhile).
2. Even though I am not involved in these activities, I feel like there haven't been any large events throughout the year. It was hard to go anywhere near FA without seeing 4 DAY or DOORS 3, or CBC3 ect. plastered everywhere. I feel like the projects are lacking (or rather, the community has a tendency to not finish their projects, which I think is the biggest factor right now). The FA portal had an extremely large presence, as did the homepage. I just don't get this feeling with SPP at the moment.

Quote from Cronos

Merge was a little shaky at first, however a year on it seems to have turned out pretty well. Two things I would mention:

1. Obviously many of the former members leaving wasn't great. But I have taken a liking to many of the people whom have come over from FA. Over the last half a year, many people started getting the jist of things (which generally happens after you've hung around for awhile).
2. Even though I am not involved in these activities, I feel like there haven't been any large events throughout the year. It was hard to go anywhere near FA without seeing 4 DAY or DOORS 3, or CBC3 ect. plastered everywhere. I feel like the projects are lacking (or rather, the community has a tendency to not finish their projects, which I think is the biggest factor right now). The FA portal had an extremely large presence, as did the homepage. I just don't get this feeling with SPP at the moment.

Cronos you might have a point there. There has being an huge case of laziness. Those projects were carried from FA to SP but not a lot a people joined in just because they couldn't be bothered to some other brain bashing stupid excuse. Someone needs to host a huge project that everyone can get involved in. I would give my ideas out but I don't think I can do that here.