Free Will: Is it really there, or is it just an illusion?

Started by: Ash | Replies: 104 | Views: 4,288

MoD
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Jun 16, 2008 4:22 PM #158169

Quote from The Pirate
I'd like to direct your attention to a post I made a couple days ago on the subject.

Even if true free will does not exist, that doesn't mean we are free from any accountability (to those who are using that as the basis for their arguments).

Like I said in the final paragraph of the above post, as far as we are concerned, we DO have free will because we have no possible way of knowing the difference between free will and an illusion of free will. For all we know, the entire universe we live in is nothing but a massive computer simulation like in The Matrix, but it wouldn't really matter anyways. It feels "real" enough to us, so as far as any of us are concerned this is in fact reality.

What I'm saying is that even if we don't have "true" free will, we are all subject to the same illusion, so we define that illusion as being free will. There is no freedom from responsibility for our actions. I would still consider someone a nutcase if they tried to justify murder by saying there is no such thing as free will and therefore he was inescapably destined to commit the crime.

Like I said before, it is merely a thought experiment. Whether or not free will is an illusion does not change anything. If EVERYONE sees the same illusion, the illusion for all intents and purposes, is reality.

That is also my theory, fellow jedi master.

Automaton
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Jun 16, 2008 4:28 PM #158175

ok well i think we do have free will. for instance, think of what6 im writing now. if i wrote "u" instead of you then that would be using my free will. what could possibly have influenced me in such a manner as to change the words i write? tha answer: nothing. we have free will

(at least i hope we do :( )

MoD
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Jun 16, 2008 4:30 PM #158178

Quote from jrockpunk1
ok well i think we do have free will. for instance, think of what6 im writing now. if i wrote "u" instead of you then that would be using my free will. what could possibly have influenced me in such a manner as to change the words i write? tha answer: nothing. we have free will

(at least i hope we do :( )

No, it would be pre-determined you would write u instead of you, even if you think your beating destiny, its all part of what your trying to escape from.

CriticalDesign
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Jun 16, 2008 6:32 PM #158293

I don't think we can prove either side of the debate.

Automaton
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Jun 16, 2008 6:44 PM #158313

ive read through the comments again and i see that even the smallest things i suppose could have been pre determined by your past experiences. but i guess well never know if thats true or not.

Bubba Jones
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Jun 17, 2008 1:30 AM #158505

I think free will can be disproven because it makes no sense. by it's very nature it can't happen.

Nebakenezzer
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Jun 17, 2008 3:11 AM #158573

I think,

the question we should be asking is...

what would jesus do?

Bonk
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Jun 17, 2008 5:18 AM #158734

Quote from jrockpunk1
ok well i think we do have free will. for instance, think of what6 im writing now. if i wrote "u" instead of you then that would be using my free will. what could possibly have influenced me in such a manner as to change the words i write? tha answer: nothing. we have free will

(at least i hope we do :( )

An influence. That's the thing. You wouldn't right "u" unless a series of influences (maybe in this case something like MSN conversations) brought you to the stage where you would.

If you had had an experience with someone on the internet getting really angry about your grammar, then you would start writing with good grammar, unless you combined the influence of the internet person getting angry and something else, such as your dad telling you to never back down. This would produce a different reaction, such as continued bad grammar on the internet.

That's a really simplified version, but you get the idea.

carstraft
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Jun 17, 2008 5:23 AM #158737

Quote from Bubba Jones
Free will is scientifically impossible, as far as I can see. It simply makes no sense. It seems to be the result of our being conscious of our cognitive abilities , which are complex to the point of seeming to be "free".

Also some of you don't seem to be understanding the discussion. If there is no free will it isn't actually applicable to your daily life, its just theory were talking about here, and what actually is, not bringing in all this extra garbage about people being unresponsible. "oh hur you don't believe in god cuz you dont want to go to church on sunday." same thing.

i have free will, because i make my own choices. there are several variables that affect my choice, but i still have the ability to make my own choice. that is what free will is. i did'nt really read any other posts except this.

Bonk
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Jun 17, 2008 5:27 AM #158740

Then get the **** out.

Let's see what your series of influences (including this one) make you do now.

Bubba Jones
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Jun 17, 2008 7:18 AM #158810

Quote from carstraft
i have free will, because i make my own choices. there are several variables that affect my choice, but i still have the ability to make my own choice. that is what free will is. i did'nt really read any other posts except this.

That's just a case of some variables winning out over the others in your mind. I mean how does a "free" will decide on something? By being influenced by different things and feeling etc...which means it's not free.

Either that or it's random, and that would be impossible, atleast i think.

Mantha
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Jun 17, 2008 8:02 AM #158837

Quote from OGrilla2
I got through a few posts before realizing that almost everyone was completely ignorant on the
subject.

?Well sorry for being ignorant.

MoD
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Jun 17, 2008 7:50 PM #159065

Quote from Nebakenezzer
I think,

the question we should be asking is...

what would jesus do?

He would troll the jews a bit more, lol at the pope and then an hero for our more recent crimes.

He would then resurrect and lol some more while jacking off to dead babies.
Soon after a book would be written, changing almost every event to their liking, and it will become a best seller, and a movie shall be made from it.

It shall be called.

The Bible : Locked and reloaded.

luckyjoe
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Jun 17, 2008 9:12 PM #159115

Litterally, free will dosen't exist, we do learn everything the hard way really, like such

You touch a stove, you get burned = dont do it again
You poke a bear, you get your armed ripped off = don't do it again
You eat an apple, you find half of a worm in it = dont eat apple's that have holes in them
You shoot your friend, you get arrested for life = If you get another chance, dont do it again
Dick Cheny ask you to go hunting with you = If you survive, don't do it again

now litterally we do learn all most everything by ourselves

Besides, teachers are over rated anyways

luckyjoe
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Jun 17, 2008 9:17 PM #159116

Quote from MoD
He would troll the jews a bit more, lol at the pope and then an hero for our more recent crimes.

He would then resurrect and lol some more while jacking off to dead babies.
Soon after a book would be written, changing almost every event to their liking, and it will become a best seller, and a movie shall be made from it.

It shall be called.

The Bible : Locked and reloaded.

I wonder what the movie would be like?