Quote from ShadowGeneralChaos

oh yes...thats a really good Idea, please buff them ;)

They serve their current purpose fine, so why should we buff them? They can assassinate mages just fine, except for the Chaos mages as far as I remember. Now that should be slightly buffed, but other than that, shadows don't need a buff. THEY ARE NOT DIRECT COMBAT UNITS

Quote from FailingAtFailing

They serve their current purpose fine, so why should we buff them? They can assassinate mages just fine, except for the Chaos mages as far as I remember. Now that should be slightly buffed, but other than that, shadows don't need a buff. THEY ARE NOT DIRECT COMBAT UNITS

Shadow, this is why.

Quote from FailingAtFailing

They serve their current purpose fine, so why should we buff them? They can assassinate mages just fine, except for the Chaos mages as far as I remember. Now that should be slightly buffed, but other than that, shadows don't need a buff. THEY ARE NOT DIRECT COMBAT UNITS

I know that they arent DIRECT COMBAT UNITS. Their being is only for assassintaing. I KNOW IT!!! But against Chaos they are so good as useless. What can they instakill? Crawlers, but is it worst to assassinae crawlers??? Bombers: Ähm....same as Crawlers...... the assassintating of miners is the only good one....

EDIT: @Xanderman: You dont have to repeat it ;)

Quote from ShadowGeneralChaos

I know that they arent DIRECT COMBAT UNITS. Their being is only for assassintaing. I KNOW IT!!! But against Chaos they are so good as useless. What can they instakill? Crawlers, but is it worst to assassinae crawlers??? Bombers: Ähm....same as Crawlers...... the assassintating of miners is the only good one....

EDIT: @Xanderman: You dont have to repeat it ;)

They still can't instakill medusa or marrowkai? I swear I thought they had a health nerf, oh well.

Quote from FailingAtFailing

They still can't instakill medusa or marrowkai? I swear I thought they had a health nerf, oh well.

Oh yes...they still cant instakill Chaos mages..... that makes me so mad all the days.....but I pray for it, that soomeday they can instakill them....oh please...

without shinobi 2, shadowrath are almost useless.

yes, thats why you get it
and they are not completely useless without it
just the same as magikill are uselesss without their spells
tho the blast does do big damage

People with good micro are more adept to use shadowrath imo.

I have really good micro, and I like archers more. Spears are more used, but I use shadowraths whenever theh get mage.

I rarely use shadows because when I see an enemy mage, I am either winning with the middle and a near-full population, so I just rush it with spears, or I am losing and can't get one.

Also, because their uses are fairly limited. Hit-and-runs and assassinations. Speartons can work like tanks, rush units attacking ranged units, YOUR MAIN BATTLE FORCE!!!

I always have atleast 1 shadowrath i my army.

I joined up just to agree that shadowrath are way more powerful than speartons. They cost that extra population for a reason. Even without any skills, a shadowrath's fixate ability makes it more than a match for a spearton.

A spearton has weak attack, and is generally just there as a meat shield or as a tank in large numbers. Even then, a few magikill and walls can easily destroy a spearton mass.

Shadowrath, on the other hand, have one less health bar when compared to speartons, but have greater attack, much greater speed, and much greater skills as well. True, fixate isn't very useful unless in early-to-mid game, but don't try to tell me that shield wall and shield bash are better than shinobi lv2. At best, with shield bash, speartons are just miner walls that require micromanaging or enslaved giants without the range.

True, in combinations, the speartons can defeat shadowrath massers, spearton-archers, spearton-magikill, spearton-flying archer combos are all more powerful than most shadowrath combos; but that doesn't mean a spearton is stronger than a shadowrath, only that the shadowrath is less compatible with other troops.

Besides, even in shadowrath versus spearton confrontations, shadowrath hold the upper hand. They can always run away first, so they control when the battle takes place; they can always use solo hit-and-run missions to poison speartons if the speartons hold their positions. The only way spearton can win is when you max population, but any competent player won't let their opponents reach max population when they have already done so.

I think that the reason most people think speartons are stronger than shadowrath are because shadowrath are designed as single-combat units. Spearton work best when you have a lot of them in a shield wall tanking damage with damage dealers hiding behind them, such as magikill, flying archers, or archers. But shadowraths aren't very compatible with other troops; they are damage dealers, but they can't use long-range attacks; they can't tank damage for long-range attackers; they can't be massed effectively without considerable micro managing skills; but they can whoop any other troop's ass in single combat.

While the spearton are built for large attacks, I think they are built for one-on-one conflicts; fixate makes them more powerful as they keep attacking in the same spot; their speed makes escape impossible except on very short maps; their shinobi ability can also one-shot most troops.

Except for the flying archers, I challenge anyone here to point out any type of troop that a shadowrath can't kill in single combat. Even giants can be killed with hit-and-runs on long maps.

Quote from Wyrmspawn

I joined up just to agree that shadowrath are way more powerful than speartons. They cost that extra population for a reason. Even without any skills, a shadowrath's fixate ability makes it more than a match for a spearton.

A spearton has weak attack, and is generally just there as a meat shield or as a tank in large numbers. Even then, a few magikill and walls can easily destroy a spearton mass.

Shadowrath, on the other hand, have one less health bar when compared to speartons, but have greater attack, much greater speed, and much greater skills as well. True, fixate isn't very useful unless in early-to-mid game, but don't try to tell me that shield wall and shield bash are better than shinobi lv2. At best, with shield bash, speartons are just miner walls that require micromanaging or enslaved giants without the range.

True, in combinations, the speartons can defeat shadowrath massers, spearton-archers, spearton-magikill, spearton-flying archer combos are all more powerful than most shadowrath combos; but that doesn't mean a spearton is stronger than a shadowrath, only that the shadowrath is less compatible with other troops.

Besides, even in shadowrath versus spearton confrontations, shadowrath hold the upper hand. They can always run away first, so they control when the battle takes place; they can always use solo hit-and-run missions to poison speartons if the speartons hold their positions. The only way spearton can win is when you max population, but any competent player won't let their opponents reach max population when they have already done so.

I think that the reason most people think speartons are stronger than shadowrath are because shadowrath are designed as single-combat units. Spearton work best when you have a lot of them in a shield wall tanking damage with damage dealers hiding behind them, such as magikill, flying archers, or archers. But shadowraths aren't very compatible with other troops; they are damage dealers, but they can't use long-range attacks; they can't tank damage for long-range attackers; they can't be massed effectively without considerable micro managing skills; but they can whoop any other troop's ass in single combat.

While the spearton are built for large attacks, I think they are built for one-on-one conflicts; fixate makes them more powerful as they keep attacking in the same spot; their speed makes escape impossible except on very short maps; their shinobi ability can also one-shot most troops.

Except for the flying archers, I challenge anyone here to point out any type of troop that a shadowrath can't kill in single combat. Even giants can be killed with hit-and-runs on long maps.

I agree but you have a few flaws: Medusa can kill a shadowrath unless it uses shinobi the exact right time.
Full shadowrath army>Full spearton army because the shadowraths can kill the statue faster and shinobi through in case of shield bash!
Shadowrath have 2 less bar, and no armor.
Best used to kill magikill!
And also shadowrath would be the fourth (possibly third if it could shinobi the right time with good micro) at 1v1 combat with shinobi if you just pressed attack and used spells.

Omg,whats your rating? Shadowrath are expensive,have low health and are crushed by pretty much anything.

Yes they are good. But only for assasination,Speartons/Juggerknights are the most important units for an army.
I have beat every shadowrath masser i have fought,seriously Speartons>Shadowrath.

P.S: This is coming from a shadowrath fanboy,look at my sig :D