Quote from isgoodIf chaos is weak than why is 90% of chaos players 1900 or above
Quote from IHATETHISNAMEMost players above 1900 are order. And nobody buys chaos on their first time playing so not many would have it before they are at least familiar with the game, thus having more 1700-1900 chaos players. Lower ranked players seem to have a tougher time vs chaos, thus they point their fingers and scream "OP!" tbh, both races are balanced for the most part. My only gripe is about castle... But even so, the statement "chaos is extremely weak" is a massive exaggeration.
Quote from DEMONGODUghh people that think chaos are weaker then order, arent very smart, clearly these people are no where near the top calibre players, because in the right hands chaos is ultimate power. When I play as order my rating is around 2200 and the best order players are a challenge, when I take Chaos my rating bumps up to top 10 in the world 2300-2400, an the best order players have almost no chance against me as chaos. Literally when I take chaos the best order players are actually easy.
You simply have to use chaos perfectly an no order player will have a chance ( always start 2 miners, 2 crawler, go to 4-5 crawlers, if u notice mass swords, hide the crawlers till 2 bomb units accompany them, send bombers in groups of 2, while crawlers clean up the mess with their speed, if u do this, no order player will have a chance, unless u screw up.
Enough said.
Quote from DEMONGODDid you get what I was saying... u split ur bombers if they split their swords, groups of 2 bombers with 2 bombers back, literally will obliterate the swords
Quote from DEMONGODclearly these people are no where near the top calibre players
Quote from DEMONGODMost of those people you mentioned always battle me as chaos, and well results speak for themselves.
Players I have trouble with when I'm order, are alot easier as chaos, maybe this is partially due to the fact that my microing skills are phenomenal, because truly that is what gives chaos their power, is microing. I have a really easy time playing as chaos.
But in any case, even tho they nerfed bombs a little bit, they are still really overpowered. Just because 2 bombers wont kill a battalion doesnt mean its not enough, the 2 bombers will leave the group at low health, then u micro the crawlers to atk the weakest one, an pick them all of quikly, then when more split groups come bring 2 more bombers, keep the bombs split up to leave more room for trial an error. Tho dont produce 1 bomb until 5 crawlers
Quote from IHATETHISNAMEI'm speaking about players around my own level (~2150). I realize that these arguments might not apply as heavily or at all to lower or higher ranked players, its simply the way I see things.
1: The way I worded my first point seems a bit unrealistic I suppose, but even with both sides microing on a map like Castle or Halloween swordwrath spam is close to uncounterable if an order player micros effectively. Bombs are fast and one mistake with them means those swords eat your crawlers alive. Most players at my level can effectively split swords. It's not at all difficult to do, even I can, and I don't use order very often.
The four small maps are in favor of Order, while the other five maps are in favor of chaos. I will ask for new maps to be built/new sizes, maybe even an EXTRA large map. Let him split his swords, and run straight for his miners, if he's smart, he will leave them and let them die, but you may catch a rookie mistake and he may order them to garrison out of habit and you may be able to pick off a few extra miners for your troubles, slowing down his economy greatly.
2: Upgraded crawlers aren't worth the cost. I've never seen them used competitively unless the player who upgraded them has a massive lead. 60 seconds is a long time, and by the time you have enough to get one or both of them it would be not as useful because order has most likely teched to spears and archers at that point.
Ask Wyz, I make good use of upgraded crawlers, so much, that it's fun, but I will speak to Brock about some ideas.
3: I don't know what you mean by that response.
It was an agreement to your original statement.
4: I was in reply to what he said which was "Juggs who can stun" Nothing more, nothing less. Shield wall mode is extremely useful late in the game on OvO and OvC. That 40% damage reduction tanks projectiles very well. Many high level order players I see can use shield bash to stun a retreating unit.
Yes, a retreating Mage or Meric, sure, but not a retreating Archidon or Swordwrath. Although, you may be right, 40% may be too high. I have an idea for the future though that may fix it.
5: While you're building those "3-4 bombers" you could have built another jugger and have one more than halfway queued. Any order player will retreat their archers at the sight of bombs and use the spears to kill them.
Then play chicken with them, retreat your bombers behind your Juggerknights, have your Juggerknights charge the Speartons, and eat them for breakfast with your Wingadons. The Wingadons will have no threat against them because the enemy has retreated their Archidons at the sight of your bombers (Bombers are faster than Speartons, so you should be able to scare the Archidons back and forth easily.)
6: I never said deads were weak. I said they were slow and vulnerable. Unlike archers deads can't quickly retreat when attacked. Furthermore, nobody who knows what they're doing will use swords to rush a giant. For one very simple reason. It wont work. Maybe if its a *pure* giant swords spam will "eat an order giant" but it is rare to to see a pure giant spam now that order giants aren't grossly OP. Besides the fact that mages will kill those swords faster than you can say "I wasted 1500+ gold on those swords." Of course, thats beside the point, but its still a big flaw in your logic.
It only takes 7 to kill a fully upgraded giant, last time I checked. That's 1050 for 1500. Not including the price of the research for the giant upgrades (and the cost of rage) If you don't kill it, you do significant damage to it and will either be able to kill it easily in a big fight, or force it back to heal for the remainder of the game because of how slowly stuff heals.
7: Order giants do in fact do bonus damage vs armor. Thanks to tests that I did with StickWarrior14 we discovered that it took an order giant 6 boulders to kill a spearton, while it took 7 to kill a shadowrath. It also took 4 hits to kill an eclipsor and 3 to kill an albowtross, but that may be because of passive regen. From this we found that the only explaination would be a bonus damage vs armored units.
I will talk to Brock about this and other things.
I would like to say that the statement that "chaos is extremely weak" is an exaggeration. The only time that order is more powerful is really just the early game and maybe a bit in the late game (because of merics) but otherwise its balanced. HOWEVER, on a small map like castle the early game is gonna decide the entire game CvO. Swordspam is basicly a death sentence to a chaos player on a short map. Other than that the game is fairly balanced.