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How to counter deads with Order?

Started by: Azxc | Replies: 29 | Views: 3,147

PUMU
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Aug 10, 2013 2:38 AM #1061811
I see shadowgeneral is sporting far gorz emissary of darkness pic. Any who 2 speartons early on with shield wall and a couple albows works easily for me if the deads even think of becoming a threat. The guts just tag my spearton I place in front of the deads in sheild 'mode' then my albows kill them before they can run away and if they run away my speartons don't have to worry unless their health is extremely low to pursue. Plus spears can always simply ignore the deads and go after your miners.
0rderEmpire

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Aug 15, 2013 5:49 PM #1066324
I personally use shadowraths because of their ability to kill a dead in one hit and dodging skills. In the end if he keeps on charging deads at you i go for the statue. Its more efficientbif you hit the statue four times then shinobi. Because of the fury abilityn
ShadowGeneralChaos
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Aug 15, 2013 6:37 PM #1066341
Quote from 0rderEmpire
I personally use shadowraths because of their ability to kill a dead in one hit and dodging skills. In the end if he keeps on charging deads at you i go for the statue. Its more efficientbif you hit the statue four times then shinobi. Because of the fury abilityn


nope...they still cant instakill deads, not marrows nor medusa...
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Aug 15, 2013 6:48 PM #1066343
Quote from 0rderEmpire
I personally use shadowraths because of their ability to kill a dead in one hit and dodging skills. In the end if he keeps on charging deads at you i go for the statue. Its more efficientbif you hit the statue four times then shinobi. Because of the fury abilityn


Actually, deads are armoured, and since shinobi doesn't appear to be an armour-piercing attack, shinobi only does like 2 bars of damage to a dead.
0rderEmpire

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Aug 16, 2013 9:01 AM #1066839
Oh yeah, i shinobi hit then i kill the dead, garrison. Usually it would be fustrating because after one wave of attacks another comes because of the cheapness of chaos units. Get walls. They buy lots of time to buy shadowraths. I forgot also, i did a match very long time ago, about the replay.

After thinking for a while i think you should rush. Even with castle deads charge using swords with rage. If he garrisons, then you are going to do extreme effect on his eco. Just attack miners. If he thinks hes smart to not move, go for his prayers. Get out an early spear too because of bombers. Build a small force of archers and speartons, with ragers. When you need to attack, send every one out. Control mainly youre swordwrath because they are the key. Kill as many miners as possible. I did this once, my spears arch and giant coming to attack quietly as the enemy tries to kill all ragers.
MashalCeen
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Aug 18, 2013 6:33 PM #1068627
Quote from ShadowGeneralChaos
We will wait for it ^^


yeah me as well...

Waitig... :mad:
Cha05Walking

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Aug 18, 2013 11:23 PM #1068744
MAGES AND SHADOWS!
IT WORKS
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Aug 18, 2013 11:28 PM #1068745
Quote from Cha05Walking
MAGES AND SHADOWS!
IT WORKS


Shadowrath can't Assassinate Deads. Mages are useless against Chaos if they have Medusa.
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Aug 18, 2013 11:39 PM #1068749
Sword mass with rage
FailingAtFailing
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Aug 19, 2013 12:06 AM #1068758
Quote from pumuecils
Sword mass with rage


I faced a guy who used alot of Deads and Juggerknights, and surprisingly a dozen dead "bullets" (?) can do some major damage to any unit rushing it. Speartons didn't work much better.

I think albows covered by giants would still be the most effective.
renz the green

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Sep 6, 2013 11:33 PM #1080515
well you can use shinobi 2 to one by one kill the deads
FailingAtFailing
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Sep 6, 2013 11:55 PM #1080529
Quote from renz the green
well you can use shinobi 2 to one by one kill the deads


Deads are armoured, which reduces damage from shinobi (apparently not an armour-piercing attack) so a dead will be left with maybe a little less than 1 bar of health if I remember correctly.

2 shadowrath to kill one dead? Doesn't seem worth it, especially in the middle of a huge fight.

Solution? Armour-Piercing Blazing Bolts on Albowtrosses that are guarded by a giant or two. Still the most effective solution in my opinion.
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Sep 7, 2013 6:07 AM #1080661
There are many stages to your problem, but starting is how that first dead is introduced. Deads require 2 things: mana, and time. This knowledge has application, and will be shared more explicitly below.

The more deads your opponent is able to make puts early tier unit macro in jeopardy. You can bet your last dollar if you witness the first dead, more are to come. I will not discuss any scenarios but if you do not have the force to erase this, retreat. This gives them time, but it can't be helped. This is a result from your lack of pressure and forcing his army back. If you had some army by this point, or reserved forces from an earlier struggle, you'd want to remove this dead threat right now. After all, the big question against chaos is will they go deads or wings? Honestly, that's only a reflection of your macro. If you use too many early tier units, deads. No strong range force, wings. Either way, if it can't be helped now, it's time to discuss phase two.

You know there will be more deads (or you should) at this point. So what to do? Well, there's two things. his deads may lack poison early on. He may cash that gold instead on units. If so, approach. However, the moment he starts poisoning, ABANDON LOW TIER UNITS. These are swordwraths and archidons. Why? They can't tank, and they'll succumb to poison. While SW have rage and archidons in clumps may deal good dps, deads can bing-bing-boom with poison, and with bombers on spare gold it's no joke. Don't risk it.

So what can you do? Two things. Remember, deads take mana and time. This determines when they can approach. That's the weakness. If they come in with too few deads, you can easily swarm them and eliminate them. This means you can hold the tower (given size of the stage) as long as they don't have another force to deal with you. I'm trying to stay away from hypothetical spots, but you do want that center best you can. However, plan to lose it (either now or later). He needs time though, right? Yes. But that gives you time.

If you have managed your economy, these following macros should not affect you severely. If not, then your fault is again early game. You want speartons. Juicy queues of speartons. That is your first force against deads. "But Wyzzzz, he has juggers?" I know. But he needs mana. That's WHY he has juggers. Deads cost 100 mana but use mana with each poison. So there's two things happening: he's spending money on deads and expanding his eco to father gold slots for jugs/bombers, you're busy making spears and.... merics. Why merics? Well if he's gonna need mana, you need mana to combat that. But there's a clever reason for this too.

Remember when I said deads use mana to poison? well, this means early on they can't just make medusas/marrows with that. That's why they make deads. You call it smart macro, that's really just a filler for gold. You do NOT want them receiving any more on mana, because they'll keep the flow of deads/jugs going, or perhaps get a medusa, and you're you're in a real pickle. Why? Because you eventually want a wizard. So use those merics to take the poison off, and with each meric removing poison, that's another mana cost not for you but ALSO your opponent (and they're using more deads than your merics, AND the cost is higher to poison).

However, this build as you can guess is extremely defensive. So as you managed your time and eco (right?) you've made walls and planned your c archer for another bomb/jug intrusions. When they inch you off the base (or make their way for it), you better get that wizard ready. The goal is poison them, protect with spears, and electric wall that whole clump. Use mana now on ninjas when you press forward, cause they will work for a medusa/marrow now. And if again, your economy is right, instead of more jugs (you should relax your mana to only what's needed to support wizard(2-3) and quit the speartons) focus on those giants. Why? Deads take time. And mana.
ShadowGeneralChaos
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Sep 7, 2013 7:49 AM #1080691
From what I know, is: 1 sword > 1 dead ^^ As as WyzDM already said: Dont let them get too many deads, harras them, if they could get 1 dead, destroy him immediately....thats all I can say...

Side note: Oh god! I reallly love to spam merics against Chaos ^^
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Sep 9, 2013 2:21 PM #1081815
what about several swords with rage spaced out with one magikill with electricwall or poison spray?
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